Anti Vail Sentiment

[Ogg]

This seems to be a game a lot of places are playing this season, not just Epic mountains.

 

[Jenny]

The small local place we went to yesterday has moved the webcams so you can’t see the bottom of the lifts, too. Once we got there, it confirmed why - pretty crowded.

 

[David Chaus]

So it’s not just VR, then, it seems there’s a trend to minimze the visual deterence of cams showing large crowds. At Crystal they do have a base area webcam, but it only shows part of the lift queue for a 6-pack that mostly is used in the morning to access other lifts, and not the gondola line nearby that is usually longer than the 6 pack.

 

[DanoT]

At Sun Peaks the webcams are focused on the 2 main chairlifts coming out of the Village but there are rarely long lines anyway.

SP's corporate philosophy seems to be to under promise and over deliver. Ironically the owner of Sun Peaks, Nippon Cable, also owns 25% of Whistler-Blackcomb and so they are partners with Vail. My guess is that Nippon has one seat on the WB Board giving them input but no final say on corporate decisions.

For me, regardless of what Vail does in the past, present or future, I will be forever grateful for their business plan that started the Season Pass Wars which has enabled me to ski most of the major resorts in western North America at a reasonable cost.

 

[Tricia]

I would think they would at least be smart enough to update their website and remove the notice to use the Chat feature for help, since it doesn't exist. It's like rubbing salt into wound for people who are pissed off already.

I've heard of some cutbacks that may also be influencing the poor customer service.
I'm not making excuses for them, just pointing out that they're dropping the ball and perhaps could have kept some of the staff that would be valuable to them in this current climate.

 

[dovski]

I have had an issue with Vail customer service that pre-dates Covid. This is unfortunate as they own some amazing resorts, but they charge premium prices which I would be happy to pay if they delivered premium quality service. By comparison I have found Alterra and Boyne to be much more customer centric in their approach. I can only imagine that with covid cutbacks this has only exacerbated the problem. As I have mentioned on other threads you should not be afraid to vote with your wallet as this is what large corporations will listen to. To be clear I am not advocating a boycott, I am just saying we all spend hard earned $$ when we ski and if any resort delivers a poor experience or bad customer service and is unable to address your concerns, you have other options as to where you invest these $$. For me that has meant no Vail resorts for the last two seasons and based on what I am hearing from others I will likely wait at least another season before giving them another chance to earn my business.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

Coke/Pepsi
Walmart/Target
McDonald’s/Burger king
Epic/Icon

And if it’s crowded, it is not expensive enough. Supply vs demand will push prices higher.

it sucks.

my saving grace is that I can mostly do day trips and there is ski area within 90 minutes. Sure, I’d love to travel and ski big mountains. But even three hour drive to Taos is not always in the cards. So for now, I’m avoiding McSki/Burger king decision.

epicski.com story embodies everything that is wrong with corporate culture. It would have cost them nothing to give away the site archives to enthusiasts to maintain.

 

[Tricia]

So it’s not just VR, then, it seems there’s a trend to minimze the visual deterence of cams showing large crowds. At Crystal they do have a base area webcam, but it only shows part of the lift queue for a 6-pack that mostly is used in the morning to access other lifts, and not the gondola line nearby that is usually longer than the 6 pack.

Hmmmm,
Mt Rose has 100% of their lifts open, including the fixed grip that they usually only run on storm days to avoid lines as much as possible.
Lines are long there, but moving quickly with really good maze master management.

I have had an issue with Vail customer service that pre-dates Covid. This is unfortunate as they own some amazing resorts, but they charge premium prices which I would be happy to pay if they delivered premium quality service. By comparison I have found Alterra and Boyne to be much more customer centric in their approach. I can only imagine that with covid cutbacks this has only exacerbated the problem. As I have mentioned on other threads you should not be afraid to vote with your wallet as this is what large corporations will listen to. To be clear I am not advocating a boycott, I am just saying we all spend hard earned $$ when we ski and if any resort delivers a poor experience or bad customer service and is unable to address your concerns, you have other options as to where you invest these $$. For me that has meant no Vail resorts for the last two seasons and based on what I am hearing from others I will likely wait at least another season before giving them another chance to earn my business.

IKON sure seems to be making bigger strides in doing better.
Small places seem to have more flexibility and are hoping that their small core group is patient as they figure it out.

Heck, everyone is hoping that their patrons are patient this year, some are better stewards while they work it out.

 

[Blue Streak]

I've heard of some cutbacks that may also be influencing the poor customer service.
I'm not making excuses for them, just pointing out that they're dropping the ball and perhaps could have kept some of the staff that would be valuable to them in this current climate.

They shut down the Information desk/customer service desk in Lionshead, terminating 3 employees with decades of service between them (one with over 25 years).
There will be more to come, as bookings decline.
Blaming a corporation for laying off workers is like blaming a tiger for eating a goat.

 

[Lofcaudio]

I made up my mind ten years ago and I've had no reason to change it. I can sum up Vail resorts in a single word:

Ha$$le

When there are other great places to ski, the Vail resorts just aren't worth the ha$$le (IMO).

 

[givethepigeye]

why would a replacement pass take 2+ hours, it’s never taken me more than 2 minutes. Get a new one every year.

just to finish this off - picked up my pass today a little before noon - took 5 minutes x 2. Walked right up.

They shut down the Information desk/customer service desk in Lionshead, terminating 3 employees with decades of service between them (one with over 25 years).
There will be more to come, as bookings decline.
Blaming a corporation for laying off workers is like blaming a tiger for eating a goat.

Also, on this ^ Vail village service desk said it was, indeed, open, will confirm in the AM. I just had to do something in the village, so went to get my pass while there. We stay in Lionshead

Everyplace has warts

 

[Tricia]

They shut down the Information desk/customer service desk in Lionshead, terminating 3 employees with decades of service between them (one with over 25 years).
There will be more to come, as bookings decline.
Blaming a corporation for laying off workers is like blaming a tiger for eating a goat.

I don't think I was blaming them as much as I was observing the sad circumstnaces that they are eliminating vital employees during a time when they could really use the extra customer service personal. Especially if they want to continue to deliver the experience of a lifetime.

 

[crgildart]

And if it’s crowded, it is not expensive enough. Supply vs demand will push prices higher.

Yield management and revenue/profit optimization would say if it's crowded, but not insanely over crowded they've nailed it. No empty seats, but expensive enough so people are competing for the last few spots, just like the airlines

 

[Seldomski]

Vail has been actively encouraging less human to human interaction for years now. It's part of the model to sell more passes. Part of the motivation to buy a pass is to avoid dealing with their terrible customer service. Pay a premium to avoid waiting in a line and go direct to lift. It's like TSA precheck, or status with an airline. BTW most airlines treat you similarly poorly.

If you want excellent customer service, Vail is definitely not it and hasn't been for a while.

One easy thing for them to improve on would be transparency in when you will get the pass you purchased. After you buy one, the time for it to arrive by mail is comically slow. Usually in the neighborhood of 3-8 weeks...ridiculous. But I don't remember ever seeing the ETA for the pass by mail in my receipt, or anywhere on the website at time of purchase.

 

[givethepigeye]

Vail has been actively encouraging less human to human interaction for years now. It's part of the model to sell more passes. Part of the motivation to buy a pass is to avoid dealing with their terrible customer service. Pay a premium to avoid waiting in a line and go direct to lift. It's like TSA precheck, or status with an airline. BTW most airlines treat you similarly poorly.

If you want excellent customer service, Vail is definitely not it and hasn't been for a while.

One easy thing for them to improve on would be transparency in when you will get the pass you purchased. After you buy one, the time for it to arrive by mail is comically slow. Usually in the neighborhood of 3-8 weeks...ridiculous. But I don't remember ever seeing the ETA for the pass by mail in my receipt, or anywhere on the website at time of purchase.

no issue with the highlighted statement above. I would classify as “adequate“. I don’t need much help there anymore. Having been enough, I know what to expect as well. What would be the “gold standard”? Mine would be Deer Valley - I pretty much describe it as the “Augusta National” of ski hills in terms of service level.

 

[Blue Streak]

I don't think I was blaming them as much as I was observing the sad circumstnaces that they are eliminating vital employees during a time when they could really use the extra customer service personal. Especially if they want to continue to deliver the experience of a lifetime.

My point exactly. I have friends who lost their long-term jobs, people who were serving guest at minimum wage level pay. It was short-sighted to do so, but that's what publicly traded corporations do. Like the tiger eats the goat, the CEO protects his share price.
It's all about this.

It's higher than before the pandemic!
Global warming, a pandemic, and economic uncertainty all around, yet the share price is up.
Go figure.

 

[Blue Streak]

If you want excellent customer service, Vail is definitely not it and hasn't been for a while.

Compared to what? Based upon what metrics?
In general, Vail (the mountain, not the company) is a well-run operation.
If you want "excellent customer service" you can find any level of pampering to match your pocketbook.
Our lifties are the friendliest in the business, and the snowmaking and grooming crews are excellent.
Obviously someone finds value in the experience, or Vail would not be the success it is today.

 

[Tricia]

My point exactly. I have friends who lost their long-term jobs, people who were serving guest at minimum wage level pay. It was short-sighted to do so, but that's what publicly traded corporations do. Like the tiger eats the goat, the CEO protects his share price.
It's all about this.
View attachment 118525
It's higher than before the pandemic!
Global warming, a pandemic, and economic uncertainty all around, yet the share price is up.
Go figure.

Keeping in mind that I've worked for VR as a contractor and as an employee so I have some insights about how they work on a few different layers.
I've always felt that they could learn something from Richard Branson.

COVID-19 isn't only a tipping point right now.
Many of the cutback changes were happening prior to all of this. I know this because I still have friends who have been affected by the changes over the past couple years.

Like it or not the group that runs Alterra is doing a better job of treating the employees like they are an asset, not a liability.
The result is a better customer service.

If you want to see what we're talking about look at the threads about issues in communicating with customer service through Epic vs IKON.

These two pass products look similar on the outside, but on the inside they are very different.

 

[Blue Streak]

I am well aware of your history with VR, and I respect your knowledge of the industry. And I am in general agreement with everything you have said.
With respect to how VR treats its employees, I have said before that the company often treats its employees as dispensable, if not disposable.
In a previous life, I was in the hotel business, and my aim was to treat my employees as volunteers, because, you know, that is exactly what they are.

 

[Tricia]

I am well aware of your history with VR, and I respect your knowledge of the industry. And I am in general agreement with everything you have said.
With respect to how VR treats its employees, I have said before that the company often treats its employees as dispensable, if not disposable.
In a previous life, I was in the hotel business, and my aim was to treat my employees as volunteers, because, you know, that is exactly what they are.

I have always thought that we're closer in thinking than not.

One of the things we've talked about is how COVID sped up things that were going to happen in the industry over the next 5-10 years.
I saw cutbacks at VR happening before COVID and the direction of those trends are definitely sped up.
The interesting thing is that the individual mountains can, and often do, offer a good experience (as you noted with Vail itself)

I'm watching the VRR divisiion pretty closely, especially since the team from SBF is not returing to Lions Head.
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