Anti Vail Sentiment

[Ken_R]

Their 20 year claim to a long season and rock lined above tree line chutes vanished when A-Basin pulled the plug.

With regards to Breck, extending the season to Memorial Day makes all the sense in the world. With that Vail gets the bragging rights to a long season on the spring end. There is some serious terrain (much of which is hike to) to them to push there too.

IMHO Breck's Alpine is much better than A Basin's. There is a LOT more terrain too. Its really a gem that holds snow well into June most years. I rarely ski anything at Breck that is below mid mtn unless I have to.

 

[LKLA]

Probably because it also reflects a lot of real-world sentiment outside of this forum?

If anything I would say the complete opposite. It seems to be very much forum-centric.

 

[RachelV]

... It still amazes me VR has somehow convinced the capital markets that skiing is a business worth investment. I think that's their greatest achievement, and something skiers will benefit from after many of us are long gone. ...

The one enormous positive about these skiing mega-corps that honestly probably outweighs all the negatives is that they're big enough to keep skiing a financially viable business in our increasingly unreliable climate, largely because they've made the businesses about so much more than skiing. I really think it's going to be key in keeping skiing viable in for the next 50+ years.

 

[Ken_R]

This is what I love about Vail. Their investments in terrain expansion and lift improvements have truly improved skiing. Breck used to suck for advanced skiers, now it's a blast. That's awesome.

Those investments have forced their competitors to do the same to compete, improving skiing for millions. Expensive new lifts are going in all over that will be around for 30 years or more. Those lifts will survive even if the business models paying for them don't.

It still amazes me VR has somehow convinced the capital markets that skiing is a business worth investment. I think that's their greatest achievement, and something skiers will benefit from after many of us are long gone.

^This!

Yep, Vail achieved an access to capital never before seen in the industry.

 

[Started at 53]

Can you explain the "vibe"? I have not been to Vail, only Beaver Creek. You liked the terrain at BC or the vibe or both? I plan to ski Deer Valley next season or one after that. Would be good to know how it's different.

While I shop at Costco, it is not my preferred place to shop. I ONLY visit Costco when I have to relative to a specific item. To us Vail is a Costco experience/“vibe”. Beaver Creek was a better experience. It was the same week and with GREAT snow at both resorts (we had 15-18” of fresh powder that week). The grooming quality at Beaver was far superior, less crowding and although they allow snowboarding, there seemed to be far fewer “per capita”

We are not après people, so I can not comment on anything after skiing. We were staying at Lionshead in Vail, and the Uber drive to BC was well worth the cost.

Hope that helps

 

[Bill Miles]

Cost
Crowds
Parking, especially at Vail

OTOH,if Vail bought Sun Valley,a season pass would be less than half as much.

 

[Coach13]

While I shop at Costco, it is not my preferred place to shop. I ONLY visit Costco when I have to relative to a specific item. To us Vail is a Costco experience/“vibe”. Beaver Creek was a better experience. It was the same week and with GREAT snow at both resorts (we had 15-18” of fresh powder that week). The grooming quality at Beaver was far superior, less crowding and although they allow snowboarding, there seemed to be far fewer “per capita”

We are not après people, so I can not comment on anything after skiing. We were staying at Lionshead in Vail, and the Uber drive to BC was well worth the cost.

Hope that helps

I’ve skied both BC and Vail a good bit. I like both. BC has better beginner/ low intermediate terrain and grooms a little more than Vail. Vails terrain over all is much better than BC, imo. BC is usually less crowded than Vail, but Vail handles the crowds better than BC. The off snow nightlife is more upscale at BC, but Vail has many more après opportunities. Like I said, I like them both, but if I can only ski 1 of them it’s Vail, hands down.

 

[Wasatchman]

I would submit that IN GENERAL, the IKON places are going to offer better terrain with less crowding and hassle than what you will get at the Vail resorts, especially in Colorado and Utah.

Have you skied Utah lately?

 

[Lofcaudio]

Have you skied Utah lately?

Last week.

Thursday: Snowbasin
Friday: Alta
Saturday: Snowbird
Sunday: Alta
Monday: Snowbasin

Parked easily at Snowbird and Alta over the weekend and the longest lift line was about 10 minutes in Mineral Basin at 11:00 AM on Saturday. Are you saying that Park City would have been less crowded and less hassle? (I guess you think Park City has better terrain?!?!?)

 

[Wasatchman]

Last week.

Thursday: Snowbasin
Friday: Alta
Saturday: Snowbird
Sunday: Alta
Monday: Snowbasin

Parked easily at Snowbird and Alta over the weekend and the longest lift line was about 10 minutes in Mineral Basin at 11:00 AM on Saturday. Are you saying that Park City would have been less crowded and less hassle? (I guess you think Park City has better terrain?!?!?)

I was out of town last weekend. But weekends at Cottonwood resorts in general this season have been insane. I'd say you got lucky this weekend based on what I have experienced this season

 

[Lofcaudio]

But weekends at Cottonwood resorts in general this season have been insane.

While that may be true, wouldn't you agree that LCC and BCC are still less insane than Park City?

 

[Wasatchman]

While that may be true, wouldn't you agree that LCC and BCC are still less insane than Park City?

No I would not agree with that. Park City is at least 4x the size of any Cottonwood resort and has a better parking situation as well.

 

[Wasatchman]

My entire beef with Vail as someone who didnt choose to work for them but now works for them, is they havent done a single thing to make my job easy, better for my guest, or more fun for myself or my guest

My biggest beefs are.....

1. a uniform policy that says I am not suppose to freeski in my uniform, even between my lessons, when it would be basically impossible to change out my pants and back into my freeski pants. As someone who was working 5-7 days weeks this would mean basically over half my freeski time is suppose to be spent sitting in the lodge.

2. a uniform that had no thought on to wear I or my coworker worked at. We were given fully insulated, non waterproof uniform that is awful in many ways. It impossible to stay cool enough on warmer days even in low intensity lessons, and high intensity lessons even on cool days the lack of breath ability and venting means you will sweat into the insulation which will never dry. Not to mention the lack of waterproofing in place where it has rained or wet snowed about 15 days this year, and the uniform wont even dry out over night.

I am not posting this anonymously there for it falls into the guidelines laid in the Vail employe handbook. If I had nothing to complain about I wouldnt be posting this anyways.

Vails resorts has actually made me not want to teach on rainy days, and warmer days because of my own caring of my comfort and health. They also caused me to go to part time because of a policy that basically make you sit around and do nothing when there is nothing to do too anyone who knows me they know that I would actually love to teach anyday regardless of weather(assuming I can dress properly), and I would teach most days if I had time to freeski during the day. Overall I would tell others to avoid working for this company until they start taking "their experience of a lifetime" for their guest and employees more seriously.

Sorry to hear your situation at Stowe. That truly sucks.

I posted this on the Epic versus IKON thread, but employees at Crested Butte I have spoken to are unanimously happy Vail took over from the Mueller's. Actually surprised me.

Not sure if this is a case of Vail doing something right at CB or the Muellers were not doing a good job.

EDIT: I am not trying to be a defender of Vail. There is plenty to bitch about. Just trying to be fair when I hear something positive or they do something right. Like most things, it's not all completely black or white.

 

[Josh Matta]

CB stays cold and doesnt get rain, and probably has lesson structure different than ours....

They also dont open at 7:30 so there probably is not chance to ski before work.

is this CB first year under vail ownership? BTW I had no beef with being owned by vail, and having the same uniforms/policies as AIG had for stowe, my beef wasnt to this year.

 

[Coach13]

1. a uniform policy that says I am not suppose to freeski in my uniform, even between my lessons, when it would be basically impossible to change out my pants and back into my freeski pants. As someone who was working 5-7 days weeks this would mean basically over half my freeski time is suppose to be spent sitting in the lodge.

I know it’s pretty common but I don’t get the resorts not wanting instructors to free-ski in their uniforms?? I can see them not wanting instructors (or any employee) out jacking around causing a scene in their uniforms, but that wouldn’t happen much. To me seeing a very good skier skiing in uniform is like free advertisement for the ski school. What am I missing?

 

[Josh Matta]

well I know its not about liability...

"appearances" is what I have heard what ever that means.......

 

[Seldomski]

Maybe the uniform policy is to make it harder for instructors to sell lessons on the side? Or maybe to hide how many instructors are available? I agree it sounds stifling.

 

[Big J]

I think much of the sentiment goes back to the Epic days when the site was sold to Vail, and we were told that nothing would change and it would be business as usual. Well, we know things did change, @Tricia and I were released, and eventually Epic was shut down when there were alternatives to be had. The community was very protective of us and were unhappy enough to come up with the name Pugski.com, buy the URL, Crowd Fund us to start the site and build Pugski. Well, there was a silver lining in all of that and creating is the platform that you are wrtting this on now, Pugski.com. If that is still the case with some, all we can say is we can let that go, we have moved on, those how are still not happy with Vail for these reasons, should too.



Yes, Vail's instruction can be expensive and some of the kickback is that they don't pay their instructors as well as other resorts. As far as the staffing issues, we saw that when we worked for Vail retail, departmental budgets come from the top and they are sometimes wrong in their estimations and end up understaffed and yes it seems more previlent of late.

We also own Epic passes and have been to all three Tahoe Resorts along with Beaver Creek and will be going to Park City and A-Basin later this year and with Keystone and Breckenridge commiting to be open later, very well those resorts too. I think Vail's commitment to the military with the $99 pass is very commendable and doesn't get the attention it warrents.

I agree that the $99 active duty military pass is amazing. I get the half off Veterans Epic pass. When Vail purchased Stevens Pass Resort that is my home ski area it opened up good options for me. I was able to take advantage of the Epic 1/2 price veterans pass for myself and my wife. This gave us access to many more ski areas including Whistler. It was maybe $150 more per pass to go from a weekday only restricted pass at Stevens to an anytime unrestricted pass good at many ski areas. Have already taken a trip to Whistler that is less than a 3-1/2 hour drive from where we live. Free lift tickets there are great. We are now looking to book another trip there for next week or so. Whether I like Vail or what they did regarding Epic Ski is somewhat softened in light of the great deals we are getting from owning the Epic Pass made possible by Vail. No, I did not drink the kool-aid.

 

[Josh Matta]

Maybe the uniform policy is to make it harder for instructors to sell lessons on the side? Or maybe to hide how many instructors are available? I agree it sounds stifling.

that really doesnt make any sense at all....

the best know instructor cant sell lessons on the side due to being to well known....

 

[Coach13]

that really doesnt make any sense at all....

the best know instructor cant sell lessons on the side due to being to well known....

I don’t think that either. I wonder if they think too many instructors free-skiing would be an indication that folks weren’t readily buying lessons, given the instructors aren’t too busy to ski on there own? The 1st private lesson I ever signed up for was with an instructor I saw ski (in uniform) and chatted with on the lift.