Zipperline Bump skiing,objectively why

[tball]

What is OBJECTIVELY better about it?

Its not faster than GS turning though bumps, its not less impacts than smooth round lines, its more tiring, it not at versatile "places have bad bumps", its not slower than other methods.

If you subjectively like that style of skiing better , thats great,, this thread isnt for opinions, what is objectively better about comp/zipperline bump skiing?

All bumps are made differently. A line choice that matches the bumps is going to be the lowest impact, be the least tiring, and the fastest. Taking the zipper line in bumps with a good zipper line is objectively all of those things for someone with the skills to ski it.

It's the way the water would flow. What could be smoother than that? Certainly not skiing against the grain of the bumps.


Josh, we've skied that run together in similar conditions. I seem to recall you took a pretty darn direct line, if not the zipper line? Good skiers adapt to the terrain, and picking a zipper line there is the best choice for those able. I guess you could ski the less bumped up sides of the run, but what fun would that be?

 

[SSSdave]

A lot of use of the term "zipper line" that does not reflect how at least some of we old enthusiasts used the term. A direct fall line in an irregular field of moguls was simply that, the fall line. Zipper lines were fall lines where skilled comp style bump skiers repeatedly skied down every run that creates the usual zipper structure of left rights. To call any heavily skied bump fall line a zipper is an example of what happens in this media era to many popular terms when overused by late comers.

 

[mdf]

To call any heavily skied bump fall line a zipper

Interesting. So then we have moved from using zipper-line to describe a terrain feature to using it to describe a ski technique, even without the feature.
Kinda natural linguistic progression, though... "technique adapted to skiing a zipper line" to "zipper line technique".

 

[skier]

Just for you, I'll pay extra careful attention when I'm out there today. They seem to be very shy.

I'm feeling extra frisky today, so here's a bonus. Over and over the argument is thrown out there in this forum that comp style is dead, or non-existent, not viable, no one wants to do it, blah blah blah. Not only do I see comp style skiers everywhere I go around the country, but just about every time I go mogul skiing, someone comes up to me and asks for mogul skiing advice. Honestly, Geepers, how often are you free skiing moguls, and someone just randomly comes up and asks you how to do it? I am not joking. On a regular basis, other mogul skiers will join up with me, people join up looking for lessons, or there are cheers from the lift. When's the last time you got a cheer from the lift? Honestly. Have you ever gotten a cheer from the lift for skiing well in the moguls? I'll bet you've never gotten a single cheer, but yet you know all about mogul skiing to the point where I'm always wrong.

You say there's no interest, but the public is interested. People like it and want to do it and do it. It's the instructors that have largely decided not to include it in their curriculum for many reasons, few of which are the one's presented in the threads here. This vacuum is why people keep coming up to me. If they could just walk up to the local ski school office and get a lesson, or if they saw ski schools working on it, they wouldn't be coming up to me. I'm just a weekend warrior. There should be 100 instructors on the hill that do it better than me, because they are on the snow 100+ days a year and trained. But there aren't, because it's written out of the curriculum. Also, word on the street recognizes this too. If you start skiing with these folks on the hill and say, who should I ask for at the ski office to get a lesson to ski like you? They'll say, "oh no, you can't go to a ski instructor, they don't know how to do it." It's kind of common knowledge around the groups, and I bet that eats up so many people here. I'll now get a whole flurry of insults, because of all the angry instructors. But you know what? If it bothers you, learn how to do it and teach it; if not, live with it. Just imagine how many people would be skiing this way if instructors like you weren't actively trying to convince everyone that comp style is not viable for recreational skiing. I think there's a bit of natural segregation going on, where people end up in their own echo chambers. So, next time you see someone ripping the bumps, go up to them and strike up a friendly conversation about where, when, and how he/she skis. Don't attack mogul comp style when you talk to them. Be friendly and pretend to be interested, and you might discover a world you never knew existed.

 

[Noodler]

All bumps are made differently. A line choice that matches the bumps is going to be the lowest impact, be the least tiring, and the fastest. Taking the zipper line in bumps with a good zipper line is objectively all of those things for someone with the skills to ski it.

It's the way the water would flow. What could be smoother than that? Certainly not skiing against the grain of the bumps.


Josh, we've skied that run together in similar conditions. I seem to recall you took a pretty darn direct line, if not the zipper line? Good skiers adapt to the terrain, and picking a zipper line there is the best choice for those able. I guess you could ski the less bumped up sides of the run, but what fun would that be?

Color me impressed. I know that line well and have skied it plenty of times (especially in the Spring when they look like that). They're blue bumps, but they get big and skiing that from the top to the bottom non-stop is an absolute leg burner. Nice job.

 

[James]

When's the last time you got a cheer from the lift?

Well it was sunny...I spied a big boulder of "powder". So I figured I'd blast through it, cause a huge spray that would look great in the sun. Turned out it wasn't powder. I had lost my mind as I was in VT expecting a powder boulder. When I hit it, two clicks and I launched and face planted under the lift. People on the lift were very entertained.

Not only do I see comp style skiers everywhere I go around the country, but just about every time I go mogul skiing, someone comes up to me and asks for mogul skiing advice.

You mean everywhere that's Mary Jane? Lol.
Let's eliminate places you won't ski because of non acceptable bumps. Taos, Mad River Glen, (your tele friend is ruining the bumps there), Aspen, Aspen Highlands, Snowmass
Probably Snowbird and Alta. And we're just getting started.

Otherwise I think your points are good except of course you see bumpers because that's all you look for. There's not a whole lot, which I don't think is a good thing. This season I've been wondering where the freestyle team is with their bumps. I see them less and less. Kids have moved on to park I guess which didn't exist years ago. When Mosely came up they had to do aerials, ballet, and bumps. Not just bumps. Probably the last generation to do it.

hart bet big on bumpers holding up an entire company. Look how that worked out.

 

[Seldomski]

To echo @skier , learning to ski bumps really well, and especially the ability to turn at will on every bump, has been a goal of mine for many years and keeps me interested in getting better at the skiing overall. So maybe zipper line comp style isn't super useful (I still have fun out there) but IMO it looks cool (low impact version) and is something I aspire to do someday.

 

[skier]

You mean everywhere that's Mary Jane? Lol.
Let's eliminate places you won't ski because of non acceptable bumps. Taos, Mad River Glen, (your tele friend is ruining the bumps there), Aspen, Aspen Highlands, Snowmass
Probably Snowbird and Alta

Otherwise I think your points are good except of course you see bumpers because that's all you look for. There's not a whole lot, which I don't think is a good thing. This season I've been wondering where the freestyle team is with their bumps. I see them less and less. Kids have moved on to park I guess which didn't exist years ago. When Mosely came up they had to do aerials, ballet, and bumps. Not just bumps. Probably the last generation to do it.

hart bet big on bumpers holding up an entire company.

I knew you'd say that, so I had my answer prepared already. You keep misinterpreting that whole Taos thing. I suspect on purpose. It's very effective. I'm getting quite irritated with it. I suppose though if I dish it out, I should be able to take it.

After I had kids, the number of times I got on a plane to ski dropped quite a bit. If you look at my wording I said something like "these days when I get on a plane...." So, I used to travel around to explore new places. I've been to quite a few. Now, that I don't take as many trips, I'm more selective about where I end up. Still though, we drive to a bunch of different places. New Mexico is too far to drive. Also, I've lived in several different regions over the years, so even without getting on a plane, I still saw quite a variety of different places over the years. I have plenty of experience. If I didn't have kids I would probably go to Taos just to check it out, and I'm sure I'd find the elusive bump skiers tearing up those supposedly terrible bumps. I might even discover that I love the bumps more than anywhere else because of the challenge. If you hadn't figured it out yet, the whole Taos thing was just sarcasm to point out the absurdity of the claim that comp technique is ineffective there.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

I knew you'd say that, so I had my answer prepared already. You keep misinterpreting that whole Taos thing. I suspect on purpose. It's very effective. I'm getting quite irritated with it. I suppose though if I dish it out, I should be able to take it.

After I had kids, the number of times I got on a plane to ski dropped quite a bit. If you look at my wording I said something like "these days when I get on a plane...." So, I used to travel around to explore new places. I've been to quite a few. Now, that I don't take as many trips, I'm more selective about where I end up. Still though, we drive to a bunch of different places. New Mexico is too far to drive. Also, I've lived in several different regions over the years, so even if I never got on a plane, I still saw quite a variety of different places over the years. I have plenty of experience. If I didn't have kids I would probably go to Taos just to check it out, and I'm sure I'd find the elusive bump skiers tearing up those supposedly terrible bumps. I might even discover that I love the bumps more than anywhere else because of the challenge. If you hadn't figured it out yet, the whole Taos thing was just sarcasm to point out the absurdity of the claim that comp technique is ineffective there.

Having children doesn't stop you from driving to Taos or anywhere else for that matter. My kids drove with me from Denver to Taos and Denver to SLC several times each before they were 8 YO's. We've had great ski weelends at Taos, Purgatory, Alta, Brighton, Solitude, Telluride.

 

[skier]

Having children doesn't stop you from driving to Taos or anywhere else for that matter. My kids drove with me from Denver to Taos and Denver to SLC several times each before they were 8 YO's. We've had great ski weelends at Taos, Purgatory, Alta, Brighton, Solitude, Telluride.

How do you get the time off from school for a cross country trip? For example, this Christmas my daughter had a ballet production which took us out of any big trip. Then our next chunk of time is spring break, and we're heading to Denver on a plane. Other times of the year we get a day or two here or there which is just enough to drive to the next state, but not across the country. My wife and I are on the same page where we don't like the kids missing too much school. Frankly, the whole family in the car together for 8 days is not really something I'm that excited about either.....

 

[Brock Tice]

Plenty of zipper-line-skiable bumps at Taos in White Feather Gully and some of the other blues. The others, well, skier could probably zipper-line them but I don't know it's objectively the optimal technique. *shrug*

 

[skier]

All bumps are made differently. A line choice that matches the bumps is going to be the lowest impact, be the least tiring, and the fastest. Taking the zipper line in bumps with a good zipper line is objectively all of those things for someone with the skills to ski it.

It's the way the water would flow. What could be smoother than that? Certainly not skiing against the grain of the bumps.


Josh, we've skied that run together in similar conditions. I seem to recall you took a pretty darn direct line, if not the zipper line? Good skiers adapt to the terrain, and picking a zipper line there is the best choice for those able. I guess you could ski the less bumped up sides of the run, but what fun would that be?

Listen at 0:30 in Tball's video. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe someone is shouting out a compliment to Tball as he skis by. That's what I'm talking about. I love how Tball replies, "Thankyou" as camly as if he's walking in the mall while ripping a line at 14 mph (guessing?) Is that what happened Tball, or am I reading it wrong?

 

[mdf]

There's not a whole lot, which I don't think is a good thing. This season I've been wondering where the freestyle team is with their bumps. I see them less and less.

Weekend before last at Loon there was an organized bump competition of little kids. The course had the two jumps and everything. Pretty cool.

Only a small percentage were "really" skiing zipper line style, but they were all staying in a zipper line lane. Pretty good air, though -- guess that is the park carryover.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

How do you get the time off from school for a cross country trip? For example, this Christmas my daughter had a ballet production which took us out of any big trip. Then our next chunk of time is spring break, and we're heading to Denver on a plane. Other times of the year we get a day or two here or there which is just enough to drive to the next state, but not across the country. My wife and I are on the same page where we don't like the kids missing too much school. Frankly, the whole family in the car together for 8 days is not really something I'm that excited about either.....

I couldn't care less about my kids missing school.

 

[James]

I knew you'd say that, so I had my answer prepared already.

So, to sum up it's kids, not ski areas at all. And there's really only one with proper bumps, Mary Jane, so you go there. That's fine, but you say the whole country is skiing bumps based on...reports?
I could say there's bumpers all over Abasin in May. I could also say there's not many there at all. Which is true also relative to the overall numbers. They have one spot they use.

Now that I think of it, it's odd they never really jam down Ramrod or Exhibition. They seem to stick to the prepared course. Too bad, it would be goid advertising for bump skiing. Instead most people likely barely notice them.

It's the instructors that have largely decided not to include it in their curriculum for many reasons, few of which are the one's presented in the threads here

Yes, because it's instructors who make the decisions in ski schools. I would say probably30 years ago there were way more bump oriented instructors. Though comp zipperline would still have been rare. Schools now would have to hire bumpers. The only way a school would do that is if there's demand. Adults barely take advanced lessons as it is. So a place like Mary Jane/Winter Park would probably have some. Maybe Steamboat. Maybe Aspen.

Way more people skied bumps 30 yrs ago. Only straight skis were around. Shaped skis and fat skis probably helped kill the desire for skiing bumps. Groomers are more interesting, off piste more accessible. Most kids are way more interested in park than bumps. It's a chicken/egg issue. They don't see lots of it, they're not interested. People barely watch ski racing on tv, bump comps are even less. How many will Tremblant get for their Wcup comp?

You mean other than the fact I'd either die or go postal if I didn't? ymmv

How about 3 more kids to soothe things out instead of skiing?

 

[skier]

So, to sum up it's kids, not ski areas at all. And there's really only one with proper bumps, Mary Jane, so you go there. That's fine, but you say the whole country is skiing bumps based on...reports?
I could say there's bumpers all over Abasin in May. I could also say there's not many there at all. Which is true also relative to the overall numbers. They have one spot they use.

Now that I think of it, it's odd they never really jam down Ramrod or Exhibition. They seem to stick to the prepared course. Too bad, it would be goid advertising for bump skiing. Instead most people likely barely notice them.

Yes, because it's instructors who make the decisions in ski schools. I would say probably30 years ago there were way more bump oriented instructors. Though comp zipperline would still have been rare. Schools now would have to hire bumpers. The only way a school would do that is if there's demand. Adults barely take advanced lessons as it is. So a place like Mary Jane/Winter Park would probably have some. Maybe Steamboat. Maybe Aspen.

Way more people skied bumps 30 yrs ago. Only straight skis were around. Shaped skis and fat skis probably helped kill the desire for skiing bumps. Groomers are more interesting, off piste more accessible. Most kids are way more interested in park than bumps. It's a chicken/egg issue. They don't see lots of it, they're not interested. People barely watch ski racing on tv, bump comps are even less. How many will Tremblant get for their Wcup comp?


How about 3 more kids to soothe things out instead of skiing?

Ok James, you win.

 

[Brock Tice]

Shaped skis and fat skis probably helped kill the desire for skiing bumps. Groomers are more interesting, off piste more accessible.

I love skiing bumps on shaped, fat skis, but not usually zipper line.

Ok James, you win.

 

[tball]

Color me impressed. I know that line well and have skied it plenty of times (especially in the Spring when they look like that). They're blue bumps, but they get big and skiing that from the top to the bottom non-stop is an absolute leg burner. Nice job.

Thanks! I've gotten into my own little game of training all season to try and ski bump runs top-to-bottom. I've got a handful on my list that I try to mark off each year with varying degrees of success. I like that it turns skiing into a great fitness activity. I also think it really helps my skiing. I have to slow down, be smooth, low impact, and efficient to ski a bump run top to bottom.

Toward the point of this thread, picking the easiest line is also a big part of the top-to-bottom game. For me, that's the line I take in that video. I think of it as a zipper line, but it's really a zipper wherever one occasionally exists then skiing a direct line from one little zipper to the next.

@SSSdave I appreciate your purist view on the definition of a zipper line. I don't know what it is, but I'm afraid with your strict definition zipper line bump skiing all but disappears outside compitions and training lines. Maybe that's OK and we can just use "direct line" which is probably more correct. But that would also mean the death of zipper line threads on ski forums.

Listen at 0:30 in Tball's video. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe someone is shouting out a compliment to Tball as he skis by. That's what I'm talking about. I love how Tball replies, "Thankyou" as camly as if he's walking in the mall while ripping a line at 14 mph (guessing?) Is that what happened Tball, or am I reading it wrong?

Thanks for noticing! Yes, that's pretty much the highlight of my otherwise unnoticed bump skiing career.

The really cool thing is the guy was a freestyle coach. Not sure from where but he had a Visa patch on his jacket. They were training on the roped off course up top but also doing some laps on Ramrod. He said something like "nice smooth skiing" as I passed, which will forever be my greatest skiing accomplishment. I'd hang it up like LV, but I'm still having too much fun.

 

[jack97]

I
.... It's the instructors that have largely decided not to include it in their curriculum for many reasons, few of which are the one's presented in the threads here.....

There was a time when this was in their curriculum.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Honestly. Have you ever gotten a cheer from the lift for skiing well in the moguls?

Yes.