Zipperline Bump skiing,objectively why

[Guy in Shorts]

Objectively because it’s elusive. Had my first taste of Green Mountain moguls in the late 70’s. Forty something seasons later I still am still working on thriving in the bumps. Earlier in the season I asked my mogul coach why am not a bumper. He replied because we don’t compete in the Bear Mt Mogul Challenge. The ability to ski the zipper line is how skiers have been weighted and measured here at Killington forever.

 

[Josh Matta]

to answer the OP, skiing in a narrow corridor. In NE, most natural trails are narrow in width and gets bumped up. And tight glades get packed down so its easier to follow a line.

see the things is, I ski TON of very tight glades and tree and bump runs, and I never feel like the fast line slow is a great way.

not sure why you wouldnt ski a round line in the woods..

 

[n black]

Tough question, but I'll give it a try...

Objectively - it is one more style (or set of styles, really) to add to your toolkit to make you a better overall skier. The wider variety of things you can master (or at least be competent at) the better overall skier you are.

I work in an engineering field, and while there are specialists who do one thing very well, we tend to say the best overall engineers are those who have breadth to their discipline. The skiers I envy the most are those who have a range of skills that are super broad.

To distill this down to an objective measure, there's only a few criteria that even come to mind: speed, energy expenditure, safety. About the only one I'd venture a guess about ZL being "better" at is speed. Ripping fast GS turns that will actually outpace the ZL seems dubious on some mogul runs.

But honestly, I think "objectivity" here is somewhat the wrong question to ask. If energy consumption is the criteria here, then "objectively" you can make the argument (however absurd) that you can just side-slip your way down. Nobody wants to do that because it's no fun - which is a subjective thing. So it becomes a balance of what is practical/possible given a skier's skillset, and what affords the most fun.

BTW, I'd say the same thing about any other valid technique (in the moguls or otherwise). If one could only ski the zipperline and flailed demonstrating other techniques, then I'd say that skier was not as developed overall. To some extent, this does happen as I've known a few competitive bump skiers (at different levels of success) who had definite flaws in their hardpack carving skills.

 

[Josh Matta]

Tough question, but I'll give it a try...

Objectively - it is one more style (or set of styles, really) to add to your toolkit to make you a better overall skier. The wider variety of things you can master (or at least be competent at) the better overall skier you are.

first I never said dont have it your tool box, my entire point is even if it is in your tool box, when its actually better than skiing a round line? It kind of like skiing on your inside ski, most good skiers can do it, but you would never TRY to do it.

I work in an engineering field, and while there are specialists who do one thing very well, we tend to say the best overall engineers are those who have breadth to their discipline. The skiers I envy the most are those who have a range of skills that are super broad.

so far the posters who have been arguing in favor off ZL, especially in the rec bump thread, have shown to not be verstile, because as I am saying, that technique dead ends you to skiing bumps, formed by people who ski that way.

Having had skied with two bump Olympic Gold medalist, one who was supremely versatile, and I never once saw him zipperline(in the fallline yes) and bumps all day long. The other who literally just zipperlines and will fall apart when the zipper isnt there and she is supposely world class, she doesnt even want you to film her unless she is in ZL bumps.

To distill this down to an objective measure, there's only a few criteria that even come to mind: speed, energy expenditure, safety. About the only one I'd venture a guess about ZL being "better" at is speed. Ripping fast GS turns that will actually outpace the ZL seems dubious on some mogul runs.

I would venture to say on most real world bump runner, if someone can zipperline it, flat ski GS turning can be faster.I realize this is kind of silly argument since even few people can legit gs turn though a bump field and it takes TONS of energy, in the end though I can and have out paced literally best in the world bumpers doing this, a quote by someone I was showing around Stowe who has 2 olymipic medals "you ski like a rabbit on cocaine, can you please slow down" I dont think he liked that I could out paced him easily on bump runs...maybe I am going to have to go get some video of that style skiing...but its ugly, its very ugly. Realize though the bumps were on, were real world bumps at stowe which tend to be irregular and round, having been on a WC bump course at various places, there is no way I could GS turn though that, the bumps are way more Z shaped than C shaped.

 

[KingGrump]

If energy consumption is the criteria here, then "objectively" you can make the argument (however absurd) that you can just side-slip your way down.

Side slipping is probably one of the most energy intensive way to come down an bump run. All the braking force comes from the skier. Literally fighting gravity all the way down. Even the gravity assisted forward motion down the hill is challenged by the skier.
Both the zipper line and the wide line allow the gravity assisted downhill travel to occur naturally with little or no energy input from the skier. The means and method for braking varies slightly between the two.

 

[François Pugh]

The fastest way to the bottom through a bump run is figure skiing, using the Figure 11, not the easiest way though (and I'm definitely too old for that now).

 

[Seldomski]

Dumb question.. what exactly is the zipper line? I ask because of the video @Mike King posted in the other thread:


Are all of these 'lines' the zipper line, or just one? The skier demos what he calls the "inside wall line" "outside bank line" and " center rut line". None of these really look like competition bump skiing to my uneducated eye.

Does zipper line merely mean you are turning at every bump, or is there something else implied as well?

 

[jack97]

see the things is, I ski TON of very tight glades and tree and bump runs, and I never feel like the fast line slow is a great way.

not sure why you wouldnt ski a round line in the woods..

Those glades has fresh tracks, that never happens in the southern parts of VT and NH. Down here, it gets bumped up fast and I usually avoid them once the troughs gets down to the bones.

 

[Josh Matta]

ok so did ever you ever think that though trough would be better if people made it a point to not to ski a fast line slow?

I guess I need to get some skied out woods video......it will be in northern vermont though, where the lines tend to be round...

 

[Josh Matta]

Dumb question.. what exactly is the zipper line? I ask because of the video @Mike King posted in the other thread:


Are all of these 'lines' the zipper line, or just one? The skier demos what he calls the "inside wall line" "outside bank line" and " center rut line". None of these really look like competition bump skiing to my uneducated eye.

Does zipper line merely mean you are turning at every bump, or is there something else implied as well?

Those bumps are VERY round, inside wall is closest to zipper line but because of the off set due to the roundness it will never look like comp bump skiing.

 

[Josh Matta]

There are also way more than 3 optionss....heck I only use one of those 3 regularly.

 

[Brock Tice]

The slidy Taos style is fun!

Having done 100% of my bump skiing learning at Taos and 99.9% of my bump skiing there, I know what you mean, but I thought that was a common technique. Is it not?

 

[mdf]

gs turn though a bump field......but its ugly, its very ugly

Actually I bet it looks pretty cool. I certainly can't do it in a fully grown mogul field, but I love to do it in newborn bumps (around a foot high, maybe) with not too-much pitch. Got a lot of chances to do it yesterday afternoon as the new snow set up on the groomers.

 

[mdf]

Having done 100% of my bump skiing learning at Taos and 99.9% of my bump skiing there, I know what you mean, but I thought that was a common technique. Is it not?

I don't think it is the slidey thing, but there definitely is a different flavor to Taos bump instruction. One thing that springs to mind is that far-back pole plant and open wrist. The more standard approach is a pole touch further downhill and never, ever, open the wrist.

 

[jack97]

Good post but it raises a question - are you saying that a higher turn frequency is inherently a better way to ski? Or just that it takes more skill? (And just FYI, I'm just learning how to ski bumps... so I'm curious.)

I throw my two cents, its not the the amount of turns I look at but how fast a skier can make the turn. First, IMO, the essence of a zipper line / direct line is to ski whats in front of you. Like other have said and I believe this as well, its really a test or self assessment of whether you have the skills, techniques and fitness to ski the line in a narrow corridor. And the skills and techniques are very applicable to the ungroom narrow trails. As for skills and techniques, I recall a statement (which I find to be very true) from the old Epic forum where a mogul coach said, "speed is organic, once you develop it, it grows". So, I get impressed when a skier can turn their skis (on the surface) fast, that shows me the skier can load the front (of the outside) skis such that it pulls the skier quickly around the bump.

I'm at the realization that it is subtle moves like this where only skiers who are focus on skiing that narrow corridor can only appreciate.

 

[dbostedo]

I'm at the realization that it is subtle moves like this where only skiers who are focus on skiing that narrow corridor can only appreciate.

Yeah, that may be it. For those unfamiliar they don't understand the fun or excitement. I also have trouble divorcing "zipperline" in my head, from "very high impact bump banging" even though I know ZL doesn't have to be that way. I have to keep telling myself that as I read these threads.

 

[Seldomski]

I don't think it is the slidey thing, but there definitely is a different flavor to Taos bump instruction. One thing that springs to mind is that far-back pole plant and open wrist. The more standard approach is a pole touch further downhill and never, ever, open the wrist.

I have heard the open wrist thing before. This was at Blackcomb in a lesson. We were doing fairly steep pitch with moguls, though the moguls weren't too big. We were turning uphill some also for speed control, so I think when you do that, the pole plant can end up toward your heel. Only consistent thing I have heard about poles is to plant it down the fall line. Where that ends up relative to your feet naturally depends on what your feet are doing.

Edit to add -- and if you pole is that far back, you probably aren't skiing the zipper line, or at least not anymore.

 

[tromano]

Skiers who want to ski zipperline at a resort often get together with like minded skiers and build a bump line that works well for the skiers in that group on a particular slope. If the zipperline has good flow and is not too steep even a rank intermed like I used to be in early 2000s can ski the zipperline with a little practice. If a good zipperline exists its often the best line to take through the bumps. But those lines dont just happen, they are made with purpose.

 

[mdf]

Yeah, that may be it. For those unfamiliar they don't understand the fun or excitement. I also have trouble divorcing "zipperline" in my head, from "very high impact bump banging" even though I know ZL doesn't have to be that way. I have to keep telling myself that as I read these threads.

As usual, the same words mean different things to different people. To me, there is a fuzzy boundary between ZL and not ZL. Competition bump skiing is obviously ZL. If you ski a reasonably direct line on a double line of bumps (like the teeth on the two sides of a zipper), and make absorption/extension the primary speed control mechanism, I'm fairly sure everyone would call that ZL. But where is the limit? There are lines that stay in that double line of bumps (the zipper teeth) that I would not call ZL.

(Disclaimer - I'm not a great zipper. If the bumps are a nice shape and I'm on, I can do it and enjoy it, but those two pre-conditions don't always happen.)

 

[KingGrump]

One thing that springs to mind is that far-back pole plant and open wrist. The more standard approach is a pole touch further downhill and never, ever, open the wrist.

Much depends on terrain and the subsequent consequences of a botched turn.
A forward pole touch down the hill is used for a more aggressive approach. A botched turn usually lands you couple bumps downhill. No blood, no foul.
A open handed pole plant behind the heel is used for those places where a botched turn will have you practicing self arrest with Slim.