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karlo

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What is OBJECTIVELY better about it?

Its not faster than GS turning though bumps, its not less impacts than smooth round lines, its more tiring, it not at versatile "places have bad bumps", its not slower than other methods.

If you subjectively like that style of skiing better , thats great,, this thread isnt for opinions, what is objectively better about comp/zipperline bump skiing?

It‘s fun? Yesterday, I skied some bumps. Not huge. I didn't intend to do zipper line. But, a couple of bumps were there and it was simply the best line. Then, another bump was there, just at the right place, then another... I even thought, as I did them, I shouldn't. But, i kept doing it. I simply got sucked in. Is fun objective?
 

Paul Shifflet

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My only issue was with the mogul mafia insisting that WC mogul technique was the be all and end all and everyone else is a somehow a lesser soul. JB is not using classic WC mogul technique.

Here's the thing Geepers. A couple of bumpers online express how they like zipper line skiing, and you compare them to the mafia. Meanwhile, the organizations you're plugged into, man, demand that you use your edges, just so, to look like JB, otherwise you won't receive the coveted L3 status. Once you get this respected status you can come online and tell people that you don't approve when they skid, and people should listen to you, because you're an L3 (not all L3s do this, but several do). Meanwhile you can't see the arbitrary difference between demanding that you zipper line vs. demanding that you use your edges a certain way. Instructors could just as easily have gone another way, like several other organizations that dictate where you must turn to be the best (alpine racing, comp mogul skiing). Merely, some people decided that a different standard of excellence was more appropriate for recreational instruction. So, you just accept that to be the best you must dedicate 1000s of hours of your life chasing an arbitrary standard, while simultaneously resenting others that aspire towards skiing that doesn't resemble the ideal you've adopted. Add on those that are also critical of skiing styles working towards a different standard, and you have a hypocrite.

So, this is why we have endless thread wars over zipper line skiing. Footsoldiers like yourself come out advancing all the myths about zipper line skiing that attempt to render an objective reason why it shouldn't be the standard of excellence (bad for the knees, only for daredevils, can't be done on natural bumps, no one is interested.....) The propagation of those myths are rooted in the desire to feel like a great mogul skier without being able to zipper line. People that know those myths to be false come out disputing it, and all they're trying to say is that zipper line skiing is great and something worth doing. But, all you hear is that you're not a great skier if you don't zipper line.
 
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Tricia

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Something just occurred to me.
We have been skiing powder, moguls and trees all week at Big Sky and I haven't thought(not even for one second) if I was skiing zipper line or just skiing.
The one thing I do know is that I've been having fun :D
 

jack97

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My only issue was with the mogul mafia insisting that WC mogul technique was the be all and end all and everyone else is a somehow a lesser soul. JB is not using classic WC mogul technique.

Who are the mogul mafia you speak of? I am not aware that they have dictated how one should ski a line down the bump field.
 

dbostedo

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Who are the mogul mafia you speak of? I am not aware that they have dictated how one should ski a line down the bump field.
There were some posts in some other threads that could have been taken as "zipperline is the only way everyone should ski bumps". And there were some comments that could have been taken as "zipperline is too rigid or rough and people do it just for show".

In reality, a lot is folks discussing here (not me) can do both ZL and non-ZL and choose what they like. Everyone's thoughts are probably a little more moderate in real life, but sides have been drawn making the middle ground hard to see here. But I see it.

I aspire to be smooth and versatile myself. I'm still learning bumps and if I get to the point where zipperline is an option for me, so much the better.
 

jack97

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There were some posts in some other threads that could have been taken as "zipperline is the only way everyone should ski bumps". And there were some comments that could have been taken as "zipperline is too rigid or rough and people do it just for show".

In reality, a lot is folks discussing here (not me) can do both ZL and non-ZL and choose what they like. Everyone's thoughts are probably a little more moderate in real life, but sides have been drawn making the middle ground hard to see here. But I see it.

I aspire to be smooth and versatile myself. I'm still learning bumps and if I get to the point where zipperline is an option for me, so much the better.

I have a different take..... The skiers who can ski a zipperline may be fed up with the mis-conceptions about skiing a zipperline such that its hard on the body and has no used in resort areas. IMO, there are distinct differences between what a freestyle mogul coach will teach versus what an organized ski instructor group will teach. Each side has has their own objectivity in this as well. I will even go so far to say that the choice of using a true mogul ski makes this divide grow even stronger.
 

geepers

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Here's the thing Geepers. A couple of bumpers online express how they like zipper line skiing, and you compare them to the mafia. Meanwhile, the organizations you're plugged into, man, demand that you use your edges, just so, to look like JB, otherwise you won't receive the coveted L3 status. Once you get this respected status you can come online and tell people that you don't approve when they skid, and people should listen to you, because you're an L3 (not all L3s do this, but several do). Meanwhile you can't see the arbitrary difference between demanding that you zipper line vs. demanding that you use your edges a certain way. Instructors could just as easily have gone another way, like several other organizations that dictate where you must turn to be the best (alpine racing, comp mogul skiing). Merely, some people decided that a different standard of excellence was more appropriate for recreational instruction. So, you just accept that to be the best you must dedicate 1000s of hours of your life chasing an arbitrary standard, while simultaneously resenting others that aspire towards skiing that doesn't resemble the ideal you've adopted. Add on those that are also critical of skiing styles working towards a different standard, and you have a hypocrite.

So, this is why we have endless thread wars over zipper line skiing. Footsoldiers like yourself come out advancing all the myths about zipper line skiing that attempt to render an objective reason why it shouldn't be the standard of excellence (bad for the knees, only for daredevils, can't be done on natural bumps, no one is interested.....) The propagation of those myths are rooted in the desire to feel like a great mogul skier without being able to zipper line. People that know those myths to be false come out disputing it, and all they're trying to say is that zipper line skiing is great and something worth doing. But, all you hear is that you're not a great skier if you don't zipper line.

Sigh....
Another long rant low on fact on high on ill informed opinion. The only thing I can be bothered to refute is that I'm aiming for CSIA L3 not PSIA L3. The standard is somewhat different however a good measure of @Mike King 's points will be a big help.

Who are the mogul mafia you speak of? I am not aware that they have dictated how one should ski a line down the bump field.

That's funny. You know, and everyone else who has been here more than 5 minutes, knows exactly who I mean. Kind of strange that one particular poster has gone quiet and another one shows up with a similar stance.


@Mendieta - is it time to draw a line under this one?
 

Mike King

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I have a different take..... The skiers who can ski a zipperline may be fed up with the mis-conceptions about skiing a zipperline such that its hard on the body and has no used in resort areas. IMO, there are distinct differences between what a freestyle mogul coach will teach versus what an organized ski instructor group will teach. Each side has has their own objectivity in this as well. I will even go so far to say that the choice of using a true mogul ski makes this divide grow even stronger.
@jack97, I do think there are ski instructors who can and do teach both disciplines.

Mike
 

jack97

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That's funny. You know, and everyone else who has been here more than 5 minutes, knows exactly who I mean. Kind of strange that one particular poster has gone quiet and another one shows up with a similar stance.

I really don't know and I'm trying to understand but it seems that "mogul mafia" is just one poster. What a hyperbole!
 

jack97

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@jack97, I do think there are ski instructors who can and do teach both disciplines.

Mike

I agree, the emphasis within the techniques has become so different that its hard for each side to relate to the other. It doesn't make things easier when either side states their approach is superior than the other.
 

tball

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@geepers I'm not sure if you are talking about me. I'll remind you that I agreed with this statement that was put forward by an instructor:
1. Zipperline is not the only way to ski bumps, but if you really want to be an expert, where expert is defined by versatility, then you better be able to ski the zipperline.
@Josh Matta also agreed with that statement, with caveats on subjectively grading your turns. ;)
Depends on how define zipperline, direct line sure, direct line done by sliding sideways into trough lines no.

I've got more to say, but if this thread is closed it certainly could be said in a new "Why you should learn to ski the zipperline" thread!
 

crgildart

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Who are the mogul mafia you speak of? I am not aware that they have dictated how one should ski a line down the bump field.
ZipperMafia on the left, BomberMafia on the right..
skiing-october-1976-k2-pugski-dave-petersen-jpg.52696
 

tball

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Most people who ski bumps on a regular basis don't end up skiing zipper line because natural moguls don't invite that kind of skiing (in general)
If you're competing and you practice zipper line, then its unbelievably amazing to watch( as a spectator) or ski as a competitor

In a simpler way, I found the bumps at Alta and Deer Valley much more fun to ski than those I find at other resorts.

Resorts where skiers who find short radius turns a natural part of the selection *may* be the places to ski bumps that are more naturally shaped.


That is how I see it.
I very much disagree about natural moguls not inviting the zipper line. See the several videos I've posted above.

What I see is every ski area in Colorado has runs with decent zipperlines, save Wolf Creek and Silverton. It's also rare on a bump run without good zipperlines that the technique is not useful. It might just be for a couple turns, but for a proficient zipperline skier that line is going to be the easiest, smoothest, lowest impact, and least energy path through those moguls.

That describes almost every bump run at my home mountain of Copper, and other mountains are similar. Not great zipperlines everywhere, but the technique is still useful. You don't need to ski Mary Jane for the zipperline to be a useful technique. See the videos I posted from A-basin above.

Mine Dump is my favorite run at Copper for skiing the zipperline. @Tricia I hope you skied this when you were at Copper recently. These are natural moguls where you can usually find a decent zipperline top to bottom with just a couple line switches.


For someone capable of skiing the zipperline, those natural moguls, and many others very much invite a zipperline technique. It's very much worth learning if you strive to be an expert bump skier.
 
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Mendieta

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I really think this thread has gone way too far. We are locking it.

Beyond page 1 or 2 it became just a silly back and forth about "camps". I think we are way too old for stuff like that. If you haven't, please take a look at this. In particular,

and refrain from picking up the same train wreck in a new thread.
 
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