You hit the nail on the head.Ion this topic every season.
YOU beat a dead horse. To those who are asking, they're not beating a dead horse, they're simply planning a ski vacation.
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X-mas Ski Trip
- Thread starter LKLA
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YOU beat a dead horse. To those who are asking, they're not beating a dead horse, they're simply planning a ski vacation.
Maybe TonyC could have a sticky or whatever those things are called to set forth his philosophy about Christmas ski vacations so he would not have to repeat himself on every one of these threads.
Prior to Snowmass, I worked at Breckenridge. Even though Christmas week was crowded, the town was magical and many people were having a great time. There is some great energy and something wonderful about spending the holidays with friends and families. For many, the Christmas trip is about much more than skiing and it is about the whole experience. We are all adults and don't need to be judged by others about how we spend our money or choose our ski trips.
Prior to Snowmass, I worked at Breckenridge. Even though Christmas week was crowded, the town was magical and many people were having a great time. There is some great energy and something wonderful about spending the holidays with friends and families. For many, the Christmas trip is about much more than skiing and it is about the whole experience. We are all adults and don't need to be judged by others about how we spend our money or choose our ski trips.
+1
I think this is something it's hard for many on the forum (certainly me) to understand. Many of us arrange our entire lives, certainly our winters, around optimizing access to skiing, and lots of it. But even among people who ski, we're in the minority.
And I agree - Breckenridge is beautiful during the holidays. I love the Christmas lights everywhere, and when it snows ... ahhh. But I'll admit I don't ski there Dec 26 through Dec 31 if I can help it.
It depends how much mountain is open. If it's 100%, then I've been there on the "biggest day in history" and not waited more than ten minutes max. Of course, that means restricting which lifts I'm using. But if we're late getting going, and terrain is limited, then it can be as bad as Camelback. The current record day is 8601 visitors. Spread that over 3000 acres and you can see that it's a lift choice issue, not a terrain issue. But if only the back is open, it becomes a terrain issue.
They are moving a lift this summer which may help a bit in terms of wait because it will access the North Bowl/East Rim area. That area used to require a return to Chair One, the main chair. In addition, perhaps since you've been here (if not recently), the Flower Point Chair went in on the back a few years ago and that really helped as well. Since both these chairs access the upper terrain, they will directly impact early season crowds especially.
Hallelujah!
It's about a family Christmas in the snow, nothing better. We always did it when I was growing up during the busiest possible time (day after Christmas till New Years), except one year we went to Mexico which just didn't seem like Christmas.
As an adult, I always worked on Christmas & everyday that week teaching skiing. It was always hectic & crazy but the most rewarding, especially with kids.
Wherever you go, set your expectations for insanity & make some lifelong memories
!
I can't like this enough!^^^^
Nor can I. Great posts by both you and @NancyHummel. So on point.
It's NOT all about the time on snow at that time of year.
Great pic, BTW.
Sorry, your post got buried at the bottom of Page 2.
I would think Christmas skiing in Europe would be delightful. I hope to hear more from those who have more experience
The data (lift capacity and acreage vs. skier visits) says that Breck has one of the highest skier densities among destination resorts. This is certainly supported by conventional wisdom that Breck is a particularly congested resort during peak periods. Driving from Denver for a week, ChrisFromOC should strongly consider the Aspen/Snowmass recommendation earlier in this thread.
The Euros all have school holidays then too, so similar cost and congestion issues may apply. If you're an advanced skier and want to ski off piste, the odds of doing so in the Alps that early in the season are not great.
The fallback position if you must ski at this time is to avoid the marquee places that will be busiest. In North America Aspen is the exception to that rule. But in general, places suggested in this thread like Schweitzer, Whitefish, Mt. Bachelor are the right idea. The Alps have a lot of these places, and some places most of us have never heard of in the Alps can be comparable in scale to the largest areas here.
We had a whole week in Austria last year where we were confined to on-piste skiing. But the scale of that skiing was so massive (few repeated runs etc.) that it was still a memorable week, and the Austrians really know how to do resort ambience and amenities right. The scale of snowmaking was also on a completely different level with nearly all of those pistes covered by it. I'm not going to recommend Saalbach/Kitzbuhel/Ski Welt as under the radar destinations because they are not. All 3 do ~2 million skier visits per season. Those are Vail numbers, and there's no reason to believe they are not as popular at Christmas.
I have never even researched skiing the Alps at Christmas, so I don't know how severe the cost/congestion issues are. But in general East Coasters should be skiing the Alps more than most of them do. And for those looking for the "Christmas ambience, etc." I would guess that might be better over there than a place like Vail or Breck.
Again I'll mention that since driving distances are compact in Europe, there are lots of interesting alternatives if weather or snow conditions are bad. We took 4 days out of that Austrian trip last year and went to Venice.
This is the first such thread of the season. When there are more, I'll be content to link to this one.
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Europe can be tremendous, particularly if you are looking for a special family experience. By that I mean more than skiing bell to bell, trying to ski as much mileage as possible, etc.
Some of our closest friends are life long skiers, who were every weekend warriors for years, and now ski in more concentrated blocks. They have four adult children, no grandchildren yet. They have done a "big" trip over Christmas for each of the past 4-5 years, and twice have headed to Europe. One trip to Chamonix, one to Zermatt. They loved both.
The most recent was Zermatt. I lived as a kid in Europe and that place is a big part of my upbringing. I think that any Christmas trip to Europe has to be to real elevation, so that it will "look" like it should......white! They felt like they were in a wonderland. The car-less village, the horse drawn sleighs. They had a pretty leisurely start most days, and had a nice lunch on the mountain. Raved about the Swiss food, the fondues, raclette, etc. I think that a few massages and Spa treatments fit into the program. They hired a guide a few days. Skied over the border to Cervinia. Spend a night a day in Lausanne and did some sight seeing along the lake.
Much different than trying to dial into the best snow, the highest percentage open, etc. which no doubt drives some people. When I was the age of the OP's son, we spent Christmas in a different resort every year, and I can recall every one of them. I'm now 63.
Chamonix was a huge hit with our friends' kids, and their spouses and SO's. All great skiers, who would not be headed there on their own wallets. They had "enough" snow. The scenery was great. The skiing was such that they covered a lot of ground, and skied a lot of the areas that surround the city. And, they met up for coffee and pastry every day, loved the food, loved the innkeeper and his family. The entire experience. My friend has logged as many ski days and miles as anybody on this forum, and his comment was that they could have skied about three half days and it still would have been perfect.
So, yes Europe can work. I would go for elevation. If I were doing it, I might head to Saas Fee, one valley over from Zermatt and a bit less glitzy. But then again.....a LOT of options. One to fit every budget.
Man, I wish that our kids did not have to work pretty much all of that week!
Europe...what a life experience for a 9 year old. 
Europe...what a life experience for a 9 year old.
Agree. For them all. Depends on what they are "looking for." Could be tremendous.
I was just recalling eating "croutes au fromage" for lunch with my family. Over 50 years ago. Amazing how vivid those memories are. Hell, I can't remember the details of dinner last night!
But I can also remember our Christmas weeks at Stowe, when I was even younger.
It's about a lot more than just the skiing.
Hallelujah!
It's about a family Christmas in the snow, nothing better. We always did it when I was growing up during the busiest possible time (day after Christmas till New Years), except one year we went to Mexico which just didn't seem like Christmas.
As an adult, I always worked on Christmas & everyday that week teaching skiing. It was always hectic & crazy but the most rewarding, especially with kids.
Wherever you go, set your expectations for insanity & make some lifelong memories
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The nice thing that we have found is Christmas Day and New Years Day has always been quiet (in between its nuts) which we often went to Bretton Woods or Sunday River and now here in CO it has been Breckenridge and Vail.
Thanks. Been looking around online and it's actually about $1k cheaper for 3 of us to go to Chamonix than Big Sky. Snowmass or Steamboat. I think this will be an easy sell to the wife. She was hoping for someplace warm this year, but Irma is wiping out most of the choices there.
Had a lunch meeting with a close friend today. He and his siblings, along with a pack of adult kids have plans to charter four boats in the BVI for the week. They have done it before quite a bit {as have we}. Judging from the destruction at the Moorings "hurricane hole" in Tortola, they may be moving to "Plan B". Which might involve snow! If you are familiar with the path that Irma has taken this far, the destruction is both amazing and incredibly sad. The charter boat business is going to be hurting for awhile. He told me of a boat that we have chartered, which has been out of the water having some work done {during hurricane season....the boat is normally pulled} which he thinks blew over on it's side and my well be a total loss. 72 foot boat. Takes a LOT to blow that over. Wow.
Check this out:
43FCB37F00000578-4861184-Boats_piled_up_as_the_eye_of_Hurricane_Irma_passed_over_Tortola_-a-4_1504778890915.jpg
Chamonix would be pretty special. Not surprised with the pricing. We had thought about heading West to catch up with at least one of our kids. Airfare is pretty steep. They are both very busy, so we'll see them later on. One will be here for Thanksgiving. Looks like we may see the other before the snow flies, and both later in the season. Christmas week is tough for us.
That's great!
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We charted in the BVI's just this past May. Some friends of friends have a 10 year old monohull they recently pulled out of charter services and they just contacted us a few weeks back and offered us use of the boat. A few couples use it and pay for a months dockage and do some maintenance on her and that helps defray the owners upkeep. We were talking about overlapping for a few days in December so we could become familiarized with the boat. Not sure if she survived or not. She was well anchored down in Fat Hogs Bay in Tortola and was not with the big fleet of charter boats in Paraquita Bay which is where the Moorings boats were, along with the boats still at their base in Road Town which looks like it took more damage from the back side of Irma after the eye had passed.
But back to the topic at hand. I seem to recall the OP asking for a direct flight and low crowds. It now appears that most are trying to sell their own idea of what the OP should do. Nothing new there. lol
I hope that she survived, or was well insured. Most of the private owners that I know have their boats on the hard September through mid-November. We co-owned two boats that were charted most of the high season, and we dodged a few bullets by pulling them. Of course they were pretty well trashed being chartered so much. My wife worked in the business so it sort of made sense.
Wind was evidently just amazing, with no break. Pataquita has a tiny entrance, and is well protected from the seas, but it's got zero protection from the SE in terms of a Cat 5 storm. Yikes. Fat Hogs is, as I recall pretty wide open to the SE. And what blows me away is how long it blew...and how hard. Terrifying.
Beautiful part of the world. Like the ski world it can get really crowded. A lot of local knowledge goes a long way down there! Haven't been back in about five years. Moved on to some other favorite spots, some of which Irma could really harm.
In the BVI, I'm hearing reports of some real
destruction. Sad.
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Yeah I heard it was blowing 185mph down the Sir Francis Drake Channel. Last May was the first time I have chartered in years. Always went shoulder seasons like May or Thanksgiving. My first time there was in October just a month after Hurricane Gilbert blew through. Saw several boats on the rocks then, but nothing even approaching Irma. I also heard Annegada got off relatively lightly.
That's close to an oxymoron at Christmas. People come here asking for advice from skiers who are more knowledgeable. You may not be able to modify your available vacation time, but you can certainly cast aside arbitrary constraints to have a more enjoyable experience. Or maybe even pick up an idea that had not occurred to you before. Like Europe for example, which seems to be gaining some traction here.