Colorado Vail passes the $200 ticket window price

[jonc]

Yes, those are advance ticket rates - logically since today is Jan 2nd And yes, like most things in life it will cost more if you gain "optionality" with the passing of time (makes sense).

The cost of "optionality" has gone up significantly, at least at Stowe. I suppose you could look at it from the other side. If you plan further in advance you get a significant discount.

 

[cantunamunch]

Then add in that travel should in fact be cheaper if you don't choose peak times, and the crowds will be better, anyway, and it's pretty much a win all around. Unless you have kids, in which case the 33% discount actually represents a much bigger actual dollar figure, though the logistics are more complicated.

You're adding the travel cost arbitrage to favour VR. Cheap travel works to advantage skiers away from VR just as well, as we saw above.

Basically I think you're just being cranky.

sure, but I'm also being critical

 

[LKLA]

The cost of "optionality" has gone up significantly, at least at Stowe. I suppose you could look at it from the other side. If you plan further in advance you get a significant discount.

Exactly!

Optionality in this case - largely related to the variability in weather - is extremely valuable to a lot of people. Resorts know that so they want to "charge" you for it, as they should. If you are willing to take on more "risk" by buying tickets further out, then they "compensate" you for that and the prices are lower - as they should. And that was always to be expected on the back of the introduction and proliferation of season passes, in particular multi-mountain passes. It's the equilibrium / balance if you will.

Sort of like unlimited talk/text phone plans or a Netflix membership. Some folks will talk six hours a day, others maybe not even talk six hours per month. Some will binge watch 4-6 hours of shows every night, others may barely watch one or two movies a month.

 

[Goran M.]

$209/day ?

 

[cantunamunch]

$209/day ?

View attachment 62018

But, but but it's merino

 

[Goran M.]

Shear pass holder.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

There are many guests who do not care about the price.

Their lodging, dinners, nannies, drivers and other activities are much more costly than a lift ticket.

 

[cantunamunch]

There are many guests who do not care about the price.

Their lodging, dinners, nannies, drivers and other activities are much more costly than a lift ticket.

This dovetails nicely into the points we were making above; the market is not (even close to) reaching a tipping point.

This is far from a unique dynamic to the ski industry:

In 1998 the movie industry sold 1,443,828,069 tickets in the US. In 2018, it sold 1,225,312,616 tickets. A 15% decline in attendance.

In 1998, the movie industry did $6,771,554,637 in sales in the US. In 2018, the movie industry did $10,992,959,545 in sales in the US. A 62% increase in revenue.

Exactly. I was rather surprised more participants in this thread didn't spot that pattern.

 

[focker]

There are now many resorts I will never get to ski out west as the pass price is simply too high for my to ever justify skiing there. It's sad but I'm fine with that. Lots of smaller good places still left you can ski at without forking over $200.

For a family like mine who will only ski 3-4 days out west in a year the Ikon or Epic passes offer no help either. They are really designed for people who ski for a week+ or who take multiple trips out there.

 

[jonc]

There are many guests who do not care about the price.

Their lodging, dinners, nannies, drivers and other activities are much more costly than a lift ticket.

I spent more on new gear than on lift tickets this year.

 

[jonc]

There are now many resorts I will never get to ski out west as the pass price is simply too high for my to ever justify skiing there. It's sad but I'm fine with that. Lots of smaller good places still left you can ski at without forking over $200.

For a family like mine who will only ski 3-4 days out west in a year the Ikon or Epic passes offer no help either. They are really designed for people who ski for a week+ or who take multiple trips out there.

That is what holds me back from the passes as well, it really requires 2 4-day trips to breakeven. While we often take more than one trip I have not yet been willing to commit to 1 brand of mountains for all trips. When you add up all the travel costs, lodging, food, etc... the savings from a season-pass used 8-10 days/year just don't get me much return. The flexibility to go to other mountains I haven't explored yet is more valuable.

 

[focker]

That is what holds me back from the passes as well, it really requires 2 4-day trips to breakeven. While we often take more than one trip I have not yet been willing to commit to 1 brand of mountains for all trips. When you add up all the travel costs, lodging, food, etc... the savings from a season-pass used 8-10 days/year just don't get me much return. The flexibility to go to other mountains I haven't explored yet is more valuable.

We just don't have the financial means to take 2 trips a year. Heck, we're only really going every other at this point. With my son racing our budget gets blown pretty quickly with new gear, busing, passes, etc...

Plus my wife would want to go somewhere in the tropics for any 2nd vacation we had to means to take anyway lol

 

[Bill Miles]

Went to the Sun Valley ticket window to find the Senior day rate ticket for the day. They have a system where you pick up an annual Senior Pass head to the liftline, and your credit card is billed for that day. Being suspicious by nature about blind charges I just wanted to see how many shares of stock I would have to sell to cover the day. The lady at the window had to check on her computer; according to her, 'nobody ever asks'. Senior turned out to be $115 (grumble grumble).

On the "richman's sport" concept; there were over 20 private jets (I lost count there when driving by) at the Hailly, ID airport, the closest to SV on Jan 1st. Talking to a SV hospitality employee, she stated there had been over 100 of them on Christmas Day and the airport basically ran out of parking spots for the planes. It is a sport for the rich at that level.

When I drive by the airport and see all the jets, I say that they are paying for my retirement from Cessna.

 

[LKLA]

Went to the Sun Valley ticket window to find the Senior day rate ticket for the day. They have a system where you pick up an annual Senior Pass head to the liftline, and your credit card is billed for that day. Being suspicious by nature about blind charges I just wanted to see how many shares of stock I would have to sell to cover the day. The lady at the window had to check on her computer; according to her, 'nobody ever asks'. Senior turned out to be $115 (grumble grumble).

On the "richman's sport" concept; there were over 20 private jets (I lost count there when driving by) at the Hailly, ID airport, the closest to SV on Jan 1st. Talking to a SV hospitality employee, she stated there had been over 100 of them on Christmas Day and the airport basically ran out of parking spots for the planes. It is a sport for the rich at that level.

Flying in a private jet is not a sign that skiing is a sport for the rich. It's a way of life for the rich, the 0.01%.

You don't have to fly private to ski at Sun Valley. Heck, you don't even have to fly business class You might not even need to fly at all

And I bet some of those folks are more annoyed that the guy parked next to them has a bigger jet than you or I are about them flying private .

 

[Jacob]

I know I bring this up a lot, but I’d like to point out that the walk-up rate for the Arlberg area (covering St Anton, Lech, Zurs, and Warth-Schroecken) is €54.50, which is about $61.75 at the current exchange rate.

Just a few years ago, my brother and I were noting that walk-up rates at major resorts like Val d’Isere and St Anton were roughly half those in the major US resorts. Now, they’re getting down to around a third. (Or to put it more accurately, US resorts have grown to be 3x more expensive.)

 

[johnnyvw]

Quote:
"There are now many resorts I will never get to ski out west as the pass price is simply too high for my to ever justify skiing there. It's sad but I'm fine with that. Lots of smaller good places still left you can ski at without forking over $200.
For a family like mine who will only ski 3-4 days out west in a year the Ikon or Epic passes offer no help either. They are really designed for people who ski for a week+ or who take multiple trips out there."

I'm in the same boat. I attended the Gathering in Utah last year, had to resort to paying walk up rate because any of the big passes would have been a waste. So for me, the walk up rates were just another cost factor for the trip.
I prefer the smaller areas anyway, so these expensive resorts will just be in my memories, if I was lucky enough to have visited them in the past. It's a shame, but it seems the sport is either for those with lots of money or the "enthusiast", whose life revolves around skiing in the winter and live close enough to the resorts on the multi-area passes. Unfortunately, I fit neither of those descriptions

 

[KingGrump]

We just don't have the financial means to take 2 trips a year.

I feel for you, dude. We ain't got the $$ to do more than 1 trip per season either. So we always limit ourselves to 1 trip per season also (100+ days).

You might not even need to fly at all

Last time we were at SV, we were the dirt bags driving into town. I was surprised they let us ski there.

 

[LKLA]

I know I bring this up a lot, but I’d like to point out that the walk-up rate for the Arlberg area (covering St Anton, Lech, Zurs, and Warth-Schroecken) is €54.50, which is about $61.75 at the current exchange rate.

Just a few years ago, my brother and I were noting that walk-up rates at major resorts like Val d’Isere and St Anton were roughly half those in the major US resorts. Now, they’re getting down to around a third. (Or to put it more accurately, US resorts have grown to be 3x more expensive.)

Europe is a different world in many respects, some good and some not so.

The cost to attend many of the best universities in the US is over $60,000. UPENN for example is about $65,000. The cost to attend a great school in Europe like London School of Economics is around $25,000. I've been to a few sporting events in Europe over the last 12-24 months (soccer, tennis) and the prices for good seats are 1/2 or less than they are for similar events in the US. I've played golf at some of the better courses across Europe and the fees are a considerably less than at comparable courses in the US.

The "catch" to skiing in Europe vs the US for folks like myself and likely most others is the cost of travel - and the time it takes to get from door to door (ski slope). Living in NYC, I can fly my family to Salt Lake for much less than it would cost me to get them over to St Anton. I can leave NYC on an early morning flight out and be on the slopes for the second half of the day. The difference in transportation expenses more than pays for the difference in tickets - or if you have an Epic or IKON pass - it pays for a lesson or two.

 

[LKLA]

I feel for you, dude. We ain't got the $$ to do more than 1 trip per season either. So we always limit ourselves to 1 trip per season also (100+ days).



Last time we were at SV, we were the dirt bags driving into town. I was surprised they let us ski there.

A guy like you needs no introduction, certainly not by arriving on some cheap ass Citation 2. Either you get a Golfstream G650 extended range or you drive into town

 

[Tricia]

I know I bring this up a lot, but I’d like to point out that the walk-up rate for the Arlberg area (covering St Anton, Lech, Zurs, and Warth-Schroecken) is €54.50, which is about $61.75 at the current exchange rate.

Just a few years ago, my brother and I were noting that walk-up rates at major resorts like Val d’Isere and St Anton were roughly half those in the major US resorts. Now, they’re getting down to around a third. (Or to put it more accurately, US resorts have grown to be 3x more expensive.)

You don't have the litigious vibe that we (sadly) seem to have.