Colorado Vail passes the $200 ticket window price

[Core2]

Attack on the middle class, but we aren't their customers anyway. It would be interesting to hang around their ticket windows and see who is paying these prices.

 

[Monique]

Exactly. I was rather surprised more participants in this thread didn't spot that pattern.

Apparently, MoviePass did very poorly on a "Pay $9 to watch unlimited movies in the theater" model (or whatever it was). Seems very similar to ski pass models. The major differences being that even one visit a month is better than break even, and that they failed to negotiate cheaper rates between themselves and the theaters. So MoviePass would have had to have something like - half their users only watch one movie a month, and half watch none - in order to make money.

I dunno, just something I was noodling about after listening to, I think, a Slate Money podcast. It seems like something like MoviePass could work if they priced it more like a ski resort season pass, and if they were actually able to cut a deal on tickets with theaters, and probably if they could also get a cut of concession profits. Lots of "if"s ...

 

[raytseng]

Quote:
"There are now many resorts I will never get to ski out west as the pass price is simply too high for my to ever justify skiing there. It's sad but I'm fine with that. Lots of smaller good places still left you can ski at without forking over $200.
For a family like mine who will only ski 3-4 days out west in a year the Ikon or Epic passes offer no help either. They are really designed for people who ski for a week+ or who take multiple trips out there."

I'm in the same boat. I attended the Gathering in Utah last year, had to resort to paying walk up rate because any of the big passes would have been a waste. So for me, the walk up rates were just another cost factor for the trip.
I prefer the smaller areas anyway, so these expensive resorts will just be in my memories, if I was lucky enough to have visited them in the past. It's a shame, but it seems the sport is either for those with lots of money or the "enthusiast", whose life revolves around skiing in the winter and live close enough to the resorts on the multi-area passes. Unfortunately, I fit neither of those descriptions

How about mountain collective (at least before alterra changes their mind on participating)? especially with the kids add-on. That's designed for the 4 to 12days a year visit.

 

[Tricia]

Last time we were at SV, we were the dirt bags driving into town. I was surprised they let us ski there.

Whenever I see SV, I always have to check to see if its Squaw Valley or Sun Valley.
I'm not sure why I felt the need to point that out but...

 

[James]

Maybe if they make enough money at the ticket window they could upgrade their 2000's or 90's era computer system.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Liftopia This Saturday
Arapahoe $80 adult, $40 kids
mt snow $77
smugs $60
Squaw $90
jay $75

 

[focker]

Threads like this remind me that there are places out there like Loveland, Solitude, Brighton and Bridger Bowl where you can ski an excellent resort and not have to blow your kids college $$ to do so.

 

[LKLA]

Apparently, MoviePass did very poorly on a "Pay $9 to watch unlimited movies in the theater" model (or whatever it was). Seems very similar to ski pass models. The major differences being that even one visit a month is better than break even, and that they failed to negotiate cheaper rates between themselves and the theaters. So MoviePass would have had to have something like - half their users only watch one movie a month, and half watch none - in order to make money.

I dunno, just something I was noodling about after listening to, I think, a Slate Money podcast. It seems like something like MoviePass could work if they priced it more like a ski resort season pass, and if they were actually able to cut a deal on tickets with theaters, and probably if they could also get a cut of concession profits. Lots of "if"s ...

Movie Pass has NOTHING to do with season ski passes. Like zero. The only thing perhaps related to skiing is that you could probably ski down the slope that the reverse split created to the share price!

Helios & Matheson Analytics is basically a ponzi scheme.They never had any sort of realistic business plan that could achieve profitability, even when they raised prices and had you choose only from six movies daily, with limited showtimes. With the decline in DVD sales, the theatrical window was more important than ever to studios. The whole thing is a pump and dump scam. It's another example of how people throw money at anything "disruptive".

Without going into much detail - MoviePass was never going to make money by selling tickets. That was always going to be a loosing business. Get $X to pay AMC $X+Y is not a very good business. They were going to make money by "monetizing" your data. The CEO said it very eloquently himself (before he ran out of town that is):

"We get an enormous amount of information. Since we mail you the card, we know your home address, of course, we know the makeup of that household, the kids, the age groups, the income. It’s all based on where you live. It’s not that we ask that. You can extrapolate that. Then because you are being tracked in your GPS by the phone, our patent basically turns on and off our payment system by hooking that card to the device ID on your phone, so we watch how you drive from home to the movies. We watch where you go afterwards, and so we know the movies you watch. We know all about you. We don’t sell that data. What we do is we use that data to market film."

 

[Bill Miles]

I feel for you, dude. We ain't got the $$ to do more than 1 trip per season either. So we always limit ourselves to 1 trip per season also (100+ days).



Last time we were at SV, we were the dirt bags driving into town. I was surprised they let us ski there.

Hey, some of dirt bags live here, except they don't let us live in Ketchum or Sun Valley, only Hailey or Bellevue. At least until they banish us to Shoshone or Carey.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Liftopia This Saturday
Arapahoe $80 adult, $40 kids
mt snow $77
smugs $60
Squaw $90
jay $75

 

[KingGrump]

Whenever I see SV, I always have to check to see if its Squaw Valley or Sun Valley.

Of course I am talking about Sun Valley.
At Squaw Valley, we don't qualify anywhere near the "dirt bags" status. There are skiers much more worthy. We are listed under " A better class of losers."

 

[LKLA]

It's like the folks at the buffet at Wynn in Las Vegas who fill up on bread rolls, pasta and soda

 

[Monique]

Movie Pass has NOTHING to do with season ski passes. Like zero. The only thing perhaps related to skiing is that you could probably ski down the slope that the reverse split created to the share price!

Helios & Matheson Analytics is basically a ponzi scheme.They never had any sort of realistic business plan that could achieve profitability, even when they raised prices and had you choose only from six movies daily, with limited showtimes. With the decline in DVD sales, the theatrical window was more important than ever to studios. The whole thing is a pump and dump scam. It's another example of how people throw money at anything "disruptive".

Without going into much detail - MoviePass was never going to make money by selling tickets. That was always going to be a loosing business. Get $X to pay AMC $X+Y is not a very good business. They were going to make money by "monetizing" your data. The CEO said it very eloquently himself (before he ran out of town that is):

"We get an enormous amount of information. Since we mail you the card, we know your home address, of course, we know the makeup of that household, the kids, the age groups, the income. It’s all based on where you live. It’s not that we ask that. You can extrapolate that. Then because you are being tracked in your GPS by the phone, our patent basically turns on and off our payment system by hooking that card to the device ID on your phone, so we watch how you drive from home to the movies. We watch where you go afterwards, and so we know the movies you watch. We know all about you. We don’t sell that data. What we do is we use that data to market film."

Thanks! Informational. It still does seem that there would be room for a similar program. Or maybe not - I think AMC and Regal, at least, already have reward and some sort of pass programs.

 

[LKLA]

Thanks! Informational. It still does seem that there would be room for a similar program. Or maybe not - I think AMC and Regal, at least, already have reward and some sort of pass programs.

And that is exactly the point / issue / problem /....!

AMC, Regal, Cinemark...along with the studios never wanted something like this. They already have their hands full with Netflix and other streaming services. There is a saying in the movie business "Tickets for the show, popcorn for the dough!" MoviePass holders were in it just for the movies, they spent very little if anything on concessions.
Who can eat a bucket of popcorn during each movie if you watch four movies !??!?!

The exhibitors, at least AMC, do have affinity programs, but that is more in-line with programs at hotel chains, airlines, car rental companies,....

I am not sure the model can work. The facts certainly indicate the MoviePass model does not work.

 

[New2]

Just remember, Sunlight got there first with their $700 lift ticket

Movie Pass has NOTHING to do with season ski passes....
Helios & Matheson Analytics is basically a ponzi scheme.... The whole thing is a pump and dump scam. It's another example of how people throw money at anything "disruptive"....
Get $X to pay AMC $X+Y is not a very good business.

Mmmm, I think you're missing something here. Get $X to pay Powdr/Boyne/Alta/Snowbird/Jackson/Taos/Aspen $X+Y is also not a very good business. This board has recently seen evidence that Vail is paying Telluride somewhere in the ballpark of $118 per day. Does anyone really believe that management at Telluride is that much savvier than management at Powdr/Boyne/Alta/Snowbird/Jackson/Taos/Aspen? I admire the management team at Telluride, but most or all of those others have smart folks too. Which leads me to the conclusion that Alterra is losing big money on the Ikon this season... all so that they can be "disruptive" and collect consumer information. The biggest difference I see is that there is a real underlying business at the Alterra ski areas (whereas Movie Pass had no real underlying business). But removing season pass revenue and turning into a money-losing Ikon Pass undercuts the true business. Starts looking an awful lot like a ponzi scheme/pump and dump scam to me.

 

[raytseng]

the best analogy has always been theme parks or disneyland in particular where the breakeven for a pass is also about 4 or 5 days. However I don't see a skill at Disneyland and doing the same ride 20times in a row even if it is a rush isnt the same as skiing the same run 20runs in a row.

Do note: at this ratio and in this business model, to make it work they pack the park with multihour wait times for each ride.

 

[raytseng]

Mmmm, I think you're missing something here. Get $X to pay Powdr/Boyne/Alta/Snowbird/Jackson/Taos/Aspen $X+Y is also not a very good business. This board has recently seen evidence that Vail is paying Telluride somewhere in the ballpark of $118 per day.

For the Teluride thing though, I think the interview is only a partial view on the deal. Remember there is one more bulletpoint:

• Telluride Season Pass holders and Telluride Ski & Golf Club members with full winter benefits will receive 50 percent off lift tickets at all Vail Resorts owned mountain resorts.

So I think there is significant money flowing back the other way that they're not talking about, and mins/maxes and caps; and the interviewee is spinning just 1side of 1 individual transaction for exaggeration and effect.
So maybe VR is paying telluride $118; but telluride passholders+telluride corp. maybe paying vail $100+$100 back for their days.

 

[Green08]

Disney World is probably a very good comparison for ticket pricing, as well as losing benefits, and food costs. Captive audience element and trying to make extra days seem like a cheap value.

 

[Green08]

A thread was just started where the OP explicitly states lift cost is not a concern.

https://www.pugski.com/threads/colorado-trip-advice.13248/#post-304775

 

[Green08]

I would also interject with a caution we should not judge folks on how they spend their money. We might hate the idea of paying a crazy price for a day ticket. But, many would see a willingness to drop thousands on gear we use for maybe a couple years and 20-50 days as a waste.

To each their own. And from each according to how much they are willing to pay for what they see as value.