Drill The Infinity Move

[McEl]

Quotes:
Now, for the masses: how does one accomplish this?

… moving out of my "terminal intermediate" status?

But so many lessons fail, simply because the instructor tries to teach offensive techniques to defensive skiers....

Getting to infinity.... how do we get a beginner or intermediate here?

My mind said NO. Just NO. …My brain was in self-preservation mode and didn't want my body to fall downhill.

Is there some kind of bullet point of things a skier should work on for this "feeling" to happen?
End Quotes.


My question is

What is the remedy, not in theory, but in practice, when face to face with a frustrated plateaued intermediate?

Judging by the glacial progress of many of my “Z” turning friends, most of whom have been unable to shake it over the course of many seasons, the remedial process for a defensive skier must be daunting, perhaps overwhelming. The remedial actions are what I would like to see written about here. For example, in a one-hour lesson, where does one start to eliminate the undesirable movements and replace them with the rudimentary beginnings of the “X” move / “Infinity”move?

And, after the first one-hour lesson, what is the next remedial focus?

McEl

 

[Philpug]

Yep--another way of looking at the Medicine Ball thing(y). For those who have not seen that one, here it is:



And it's also the concept I've previously tried to illustrate with the thought of bouncing laterally back and forth from one trampoline to another, as in this little animation:

It's all the same, intended to help understand the "float phase" and the things that must happen there--and to debunk some of the misinformation and half-truths that surround how to start a turn.

Best regards,
Bob

I was playing with this the past couple of days, it si a really cool drill.

 

[Jerez]

Beautiful.

 

[bud heishman]

McEL,
Defensive skiing can be a tough nut to crack. It all begins on the bunny hill and may be where the plateaued defensive intermediate needs to return to break the habit. The basic movements can be learned or relearned for those in defense mode on the bunny hill, relearning gliding offensive wedge turns. We must learn to "release" our mass from one turn finish into a new turn initiation. For many years, back in the straight ski era and unfortunately still prevalent today, instructors introduce(d) turning with big weight shifts because it was and is the easiest way to get a beginner turning. However; it is not the best method to learn parallel turn mechanics and offensive turning!

Let me regress to something I have harped on for almost 30 years and was the cornerstone of the "Centerline" concept introduced by PSIA in the mid 80's. The Centerline concept introduce a change in PSIA progression from wedge to parallel. Gone were the "snowplows" and "stem christies" in favor of the wedge and wedge christies. Centerline moved the braking movements to the sidelines and moved toward a more gliding offensive turning method as the center focus. Unfortunately this whole concept was never really communicated clearly and never adopted by all. In fact today many if not most PSIA instructors still use braking wedges, and stem christies in their teachings, I believe because it is easier to demonstrate and explain and gets them up the lifts faster. Unfortunately this is not the best option to teach parallel turning mechanics and is what many consider a dead end movement pattern relegating the skier to terminal intermediocracy and defensive skiing. I see it all the time and constantly work to eliminate these braking defensive movements in my instructors. I have been training new hire and returning instructors and even certified instructors for the past month at my home area and still see the majority unable to make a good wedge turn, wedge christie, and parallel initiation. They are stuck in a plateaued dead end technique of stemming because they have never learned to "release" their edges to begin a turn.

Imagine sliding straight down a gentle slope in the fall line using a gliding wedge (a wedge small enough to offer little braking but sufficient enough to still be on opposing edges in a convergent position). We will travel straight as long as the deflection created by both skis is equal. If we cause a difference in deflection between the two skis we will cause a direction change. This can be accomplished in a variety of methods. The most common is to actively shift the weight to right ski by tipping the torso over that foot increasing the weight on that foot causing a turn to the left. Another method could be to twist the right foot and ski across the direction of travel more, creating a larger steering angle between the ski and the direction of travel. A third method could be to increase the edge angle on the right ski to turn left. All three of these methods have one thing in common, they increase the deflection on the right ski to overcome the deflection offered by the left ski to go left. HERE IS THE BETTER OPTION. Rather than encourage an antagonistic relationship between the two skis by ADDING more to one ski fighting to overcome the other, the alternative is to REDUCE the deflection created by the left ski to go left thus permitting the right ski to be dominant. This causes a passive, but immediate, weight shift to the right foot and permits both skis to effortlessly turn left. The other benefit is these are the same movements used in a parallel turn initiation being learned from the very beginning and requires no relearning of a new movement pattern in order to make a parallel initiation, unlike the stem christie. Understand, if we learn to release our down hill ski's edge grip to initiate the tips turning down hill we eliminate the possibility of stemming the uphill ski because we cannot stem without a platform to stem from. Using this release movement, the skier quickly progresses to a christie phase (both skis skidding on corresponding edges). From this christie turn finish the skier must learn to initiate the next turn without stemming which means they must learn to release both edges to allow the tips to move down hill just like a parallel turn. This can be taught with simple side slipping and diagonal sideslipping. Because of a lower skill level, the skier will initially open into a small wedge as they release, but soon refine to a parallel entry. As speed increases and the move becomes more confident the skis will be simultaneously tipped from edge to edge to initiate a carved turn. This whole progression is done without any intent to brake when entering the fall line and speed is controlled through turn completion using gravity rather than friction. This IS the GO intent taught from the very first turns! "Tip the left ski left to go left" as Bob Barnes says.

Terminal intermediates must reprogram their body movements to break through the plateau caused by learning to turn with the defensive intent to brake. Learn to release your edges to begin a new turn and you have discovered the key to progress. Learn to finish your turns in a strong turn neutral position or traverse position balanced strongly on the down hill ski and the release will become easier. Finish in the "DRIP" zone where your nose is over your down hill toes then simply bring your belly button in line with your nose and your toes to release!

If you do not want to return to a wedge turn try this:
Practice side slipping by releasing your edges with your ankles and knees rather than hips.
Practice forward or diagonal side slips
From a diagonal side slip extend to flatten both skis simultaneously on the slope.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Get perpendicular to the slope with both legs in the extension.

 

[Daniel Helin]

Here it is--the very secret of life (or at least, of skiing--which is the same thing, right?), the most fundamental, most essential, and perhaps most elusive and most misunderstood movement pattern in all of skiing. The Infinity Move (which I have in the past called "the X-Move") is the default movement pattern of the smoothest, most gliding, most elegant, linked "offensive" turns--the turns many of us strive for because of the sensations of g-force, flow, effortlessness, and exhilaration they produce. All other movements of "technique" must be subservient to this movement pattern--they must support and allow it, at least by default. Other movements are possible, and skillful skiers will use them situationally, when necessary or when the mood strikes. But the cleanest, fastest, smoothest, most carved, least skidded turns possible arise only when The Infinity Move happens.

(That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!)

Within this animation lie answers to many questions--in particular the often-discussed (and therefore ultimately confusing) role of fore-aft and lateral movements of the body relative to the feet. There is much to discuss here. Go for it!




(The embedded video is standard definition; for Hi-Def, please go to the Vimeo.com site itself.)

Best regards,
Bob Barnes

 

[Daniel Helin]

Wow, lots of thinking going on! Has anyone ever tried just going for it? When you want to start a new turn simply "go to that turn". let go of the ski you're holding on with, press the new ski into the snow and let your body go to the new turn. Your legs hips and feet will follow, the're attached. The new turn will establish its edge angle and radius based on how far over you've gone and how much leverage you're pressing into the shovel of the ski. It happens automatically. I like to believe some overly technical Ski engineers built skis to do just that. Seriously, not everyone needs to understand how everything works and why. Diving into the turn is a leap of faith, especially when you're just learning to trust it. I assure you top skiers and racers are not thinking about weight transfer, transition, angulation ect., they are looking at where they are going and moving to it. I googled ski angulation because spell check said I spelled it wrong and found this, It's all pictures .
https://www.google.com/search?q=ski...X&ved=0ahUKEwi5y6mj4MLJAhWB8j4KHR2RCEMQsAQIIg

Train Hard, ski fast, jump in the air !!

 

[Philpug]

Wow, lots of thinking going on! Has anyone ever tried just going for it? When you want to start a new turn simply "go to that turn". let go of the ski you're holding on with, press the new ski into the snow and let your body go to the new turn. Your legs hips and feet will follow, the're attached. The new turn will establish its edge angle and radius based on how far over you've gone and how much leverage you're pressing into the shovel of the ski. It happens automatically. I like to believe some overly technical Ski engineers built skis to do just that. Seriously, not everyone needs to understand how everything works and why. Diving into the turn is a leap of faith, especially when you're just learning to trust it. I assure you top skiers and racers are not thinking about weight transfer, transition, angulation ect., they are looking at where they are going and moving to it. I googled ski angulation because spell check said I spelled it wrong and found this, It's all pictures .
https://www.google.com/search?q=ski...X&ved=0ahUKEwi5y6mj4MLJAhWB8j4KHR2RCEMQsAQIIg

Train Hard, ski fast, jump in the air !!

The third image is of @Bob Barnes in that link...

 

[Monique]

Has anyone ever tried just going for it?

Yup! And after just going for it for a few years and making zero progress (sure, skied harder stuff, but felt out of control the whole time) - I took a lesson.

Top racers may not be thinking about all that stuff in the moment, but I guarantee you they had training at some point along the line that imparted them with that information - even if it wasn't communicated using words.

 

[Daniel Helin]

Yup! And after just going for it for a few years and making zero progress (sure, skied harder stuff, but felt out of control the whole time) - I took a lesson.

Top racers may not be thinking about all that stuff in the moment, but I guarantee you they had training at some point along the line that imparted them with that information - even if it wasn't communicated using words.

you make my point, If you could learn it by reading about it in a book or blog we wouldn't need ski instructors.

 

[Monique]

you make my point, If you could learn it by reading about it in a book or blog we wouldn't need ski instructors.

It's just, that's not the point you were communicating with your words ...

Anyway, some of us enjoy talking about ski technique. It passes the time when we can't be skiing ...

 

[Daniel Helin]

It's just, that's not the point

It's just, that's not the point you were communicating with your words ...

Anyway, some of us enjoy talking about ski technique. It passes the time when we can't be skiing ...

you were communicating with your words ...

Anyway, some of us enjoy talking about ski technique. It passes the time when we can't be skiing ...

It's just, that's not the point you were communicating with your words ...

Anyway, some of us enjoy talking about ski technique. It passes the time when we can't be skiing ...[/QU

Most ski lessons involve in part encouraging the student to move to the fall line, to go for the new turn. If the student is having trouble controlling speed hold each turn longer ( turning back up the hill until you slow enough to feel confident going back to the fall line) Turn shape vs skidding. Very often this kind of movement is tough as early as wedge christie, Practice learning on mild terrain, run ins, and run outs, over time you will run in longer, and run out sooner, soon the whole run will be arc to arc. Sorry if I assumed to much earlier, I have spent the last 43 years training instructors and racers.

 

[Monique]

I think I just read your posts differently than what you meant. Sorry about that.

 

[Philpug]

Personally, I have trouble reading about technique from a book. I an a visual person and learn from watching and doing, ideally with an instructor. Tell me what to do, let me repeat it back than I will try it. Then instructor tells me nom that not what we said, I reply, yet it was, he says no it wasn't I say yes it was...and after a few choice words from under my breath we try again.

 

[dustyfog]

Bob Barnes showed us Live what the X-move is, an Austrian friend who is an uber-expert has the same counsel, it's called in his language basically "finish the turn", the body moves down the hill as skis go across the hill roughly speaking. Superb counsel, Live learning drilled it in.

 

[Tricia]

Hi Trisha etal,

One of the hazards of breaking turns down into singular elements is we lose the flow between turns. One way I have found to put the flow back into the transitions and the ability to feel the infinity move is to change the thought process so that we ski through the edge change as one holistic movement with our turns beginning and ending in the fall line rather than across the fall line. Try it for a run or two and see what you think?!

Happy Thanksgiving!

So @bud heishman I was skiing at Park City yesterday with @Lorenzzo and we did some "tune up drills"
I was reminded of something that you worked on with me at Mt Rose a few years back and had an AH HA moment. Thanks for that!

 

[bud heishman]

Haha! You're welcome!

 

[AmyPJ]

I got it today! I got it today! I would describe it as a pendulum swing with my belly button being the top of the pendulum. Nothing like some really good snow conditions to help build some skills! I was skiing offensively and it felt SO good!

I took a lesson with an L2 who is testing for his L3 this winter last Friday. Let's just say he had some major breakthroughs with me I still have oodles of work to do, but what a huge revelation for me to build on.

 

[Tricia]

I got it today! I got it today! I would describe it as a pendulum swing with my belly button being the top of the pendulum. Nothing like some really good snow conditions to help build some skills! I was skiing offensively and it felt SO good!

I took a lesson with an L2 who is testing for his L3 this winter last Friday. Let's just say he had some major breakthroughs with me I still have oodles of work to do, but what a huge revelation for me to build on.

 

[AmyPJ]

It was a Samba kind of day :0 A few inches of fresh with some fun little stashes to go play around in.