Bob Barnes

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Here it is--the very secret of life (or at least, of skiing--which is the same thing, right?), the most fundamental, most essential, and perhaps most elusive and most misunderstood movement pattern in all of skiing. The Infinity Move (which I have in the past called "the X-Move") is the default movement pattern of the smoothest, most gliding, most elegant, linked "offensive" turns--the turns many of us strive for because of the sensations of g-force, flow, effortlessness, and exhilaration they produce. All other movements of "technique" must be subservient to this movement pattern--they must support and allow it, at least by default. Other movements are possible, and skillful skiers will use them situationally, when necessary or when the mood strikes. But the cleanest, fastest, smoothest, most carved, least skidded turns possible arise only when The Infinity Move happens.

(That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!)

Within this animation lie answers to many questions--in particular the often-discussed (and therefore ultimately confusing) role of fore-aft and lateral movements of the body relative to the feet. There is much to discuss here. Go for it!




(The embedded video is standard definition; for Hi-Def, please go to the Vimeo.com site itself.)

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
 
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SBrown

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So, what I want to know is: where exactly does the funny feeling in your tummy happen? Is it when the feet are under that body thing, or a little bit after? Or both? (Yes I know, surprised to see me in this thread, but that funny feeling is usually all I'm after...)
 

Zentune

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A discussion like this could literally go on "forever" :duck:

Nice animation!
 
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Thread Starter
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Bob Barnes

Bob Barnes

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SBrown--that funny feeling? :)

I'm not sure where it would happen for you, but for me it involves the whole turn and the linkage between them. Like a car going over a sudden rise and drop--is that the feeling you're describing? That feeling would probably happen in the transition, which is the time surrounding the crossing of the two lines, when you feel lightest (and may even be "weightless," airborne), like floating, when there is absolutely no muscular effort going on and you are just allowing the momentum of your feet and skis, and the momentum of your body, to travel unimpeded on their separate, crossing, paths.

How long this float phase lasts and how intense it is depends on a lot of things, particularly speed and turn size and shape. The more intense the "g-forces" of the middles of the turns (the "shaping phase," "carving phase," or "pressure phase"), the more it will feel like you're being launched from turn to turn--like bouncing higher on a trampoline. Indeed, in highly dynamic turns, regulating the pressure changes by absorbing some of the force with your legs--similar to absorbing a bump--becomes increasingly important.

Wherever it happens, you have surmised correctly that the route to finding it lies in the Infinity Move!

How's that? And welcome to the highly technical, overly obtuse, jargon-filled, anal(ytical), technique forums! You belong here.

:daffy:

Best regards,
Bob
 

Tricia

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Here it is--the very secret of life (or at least, of skiing--which is the same thing, right?), the most fundamental, most essential, and perhaps most elusive and most misunderstood movement pattern in all of skiing. The Infinity Move (which I have in the past called "the X-Move") is the default movement pattern of the smoothest, most gliding, most elegant, linked "offensive" turns--the turns many of us strive for because of the sensations of g-force, flow, effortlessness, and exhilaration they produce. All other movements of "technique" must be subservient to this movement pattern--they must support and allow it, at least by default. Other movements are possible, and skillful skiers will use them situationally, when necessary or when the mood strikes. But the cleanest, fastest, smoothest, most carved, least skidded turns possible arise only when The Infinity Move happens.

(That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!)

Within this animation lie answers to many questions--in particular the often-discussed (and therefore ultimately confusing) role of fore-aft and lateral movements of the body relative to the feet. There is much to discuss here. Go for it!




(The embedded video is standard definition; for Hi-Def, please go to the Vimeo.com site itself.)

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
So, is this the medicine ball thingy you talked about?
Or are we talking about something different?


And what happens with the legs is whole 'nother thread.
Go ahead and use the bandwidth. We encourage it. :popcorn:
 

SBrown

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I think most people seek that floaty weightlessness feeling. But it comes as different things to different people. Hence, swingsets. Champagne. Diving boards. Heroin. Skiing.

Anyway, that animation took me there a little bit. And that's as close as I'll get to jargon, I guess ;-)
 
Thread Starter
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Bob Barnes

Bob Barnes

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Yep--another way of looking at the Medicine Ball thing(y). For those who have not seen that one, here it is:



And it's also the concept I've previously tried to illustrate with the thought of bouncing laterally back and forth from one trampoline to another, as in this little animation.



It's all the same, intended to help understand the "float phase" and the things that must happen there--and to debunk some of the misinformation and half-truths that surround how to start a turn.

Best regards,
Bob

[Note: edited April 2019 to update broken image link above]
 
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Tricia

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I remember having many discussion with @bud heishman about this after ESA.
 

cantunamunch

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So, what I want to know is: where exactly does the funny feeling in your tummy happen? Is it when the feet are under that body thing, or a little bit after? Or both? (Yes I know, surprised to see me in this thread, but that funny feeling is usually all I'm after...)
This question reminds me of this little snippet, the 'funny feeling' happening pretty much everywhere except the equilibrium points (go to 1:13+):

 

Chris Geib

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So, what I want to know is: where exactly does the funny feeling in your tummy happen? Is it when the feet are under that body thing, or a little bit after? Or both? (Yes I know, surprised to see me in this thread, but that funny feeling is usually all I'm after...)
Yes, weird to see you here!

I agree with Bob and usually seek it from the impulse out of one turn as he describes. So, it can begin with the "throw" out of the turn and before "the feet are under that body thing." As @Tricia noted @bud heishman speaks about this like tossing and catching a baby, and we can get that same feeling.

I think it can also come as you describe "a little bit after" by using a bit of vaulting as we flow across the skis with out the need for a toss out of the prior turn.

And of course mix some of both, but I think the tummy thing comes on when the bottom drops out and you start the acceleration down.

But the real reason I replied: Are we skiing Tuesday????
 

Zentune

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To tip left, turn right. To tip right, turn left. Serpentine! :)
 

Philpug

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Where is the video of tossing the ball across the hill and catching it? oops. Posted while I wasn't looking.
 

Read Blinn

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And it's also the concept I've previously tried to illustrate with the thought of bouncing laterally back and forth from one trampoline to another, as in this little animation:



It's all the same, intended to help understand the "float phase" and the things that must happen there--and to debunk some of the misinformation and half-truths that surround how to start a turn.
I believe it was Paul Lorenz in the Project Kitz video who used the same metaphor. This graphic really works for me — I like that the trampoliner is flexing in transition. :D
 

Kneale Brownson

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The INFINITY move goes on forever!!!! Thanks, Bob. I think this thread will be viewed frequently on my iPhone by clients.
 

crgildart

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Seems like a vertigo, overhead, top down view of rebound.. with the above being the front view of rebound. Both show different aspects of the motions and positions..
 
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