Drill The Infinity Move

Discussion in 'Ski School' started by Bob Barnes, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. Bob Barnes

    Bob Barnes Getting off the lift Instructor

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    Here it is--the very secret of life (or at least, of skiing--which is the same thing, right?), the most fundamental, most essential, and perhaps most elusive and most misunderstood movement pattern in all of skiing. The Infinity Move (which I have in the past called "the X-Move") is the default movement pattern of the smoothest, most gliding, most elegant, linked "offensive" turns--the turns many of us strive for because of the sensations of g-force, flow, effortlessness, and exhilaration they produce. All other movements of "technique" must be subservient to this movement pattern--they must support and allow it, at least by default. Other movements are possible, and skillful skiers will use them situationally, when necessary or when the mood strikes. But the cleanest, fastest, smoothest, most carved, least skidded turns possible arise only when The Infinity Move happens.

    (That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!)

    Within this animation lie answers to many questions--in particular the often-discussed (and therefore ultimately confusing) role of fore-aft and lateral movements of the body relative to the feet. There is much to discuss here. Go for it!





    (The embedded video is standard definition; for Hi-Def, please go to the Vimeo.com site itself.)

    Best regards,
    Bob Barnes
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
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  2. Chris Geib

    Chris Geib cgeib Skier

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    Nice animation Bob!
     
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  3. crgildart

    crgildart Gravity Slave Skier

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    There's something you can bank on..:thumb:
     
  4. SBrown

    SBrown Steve Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    So, what I want to know is: where exactly does the funny feeling in your tummy happen? Is it when the feet are under that body thing, or a little bit after? Or both? (Yes I know, surprised to see me in this thread, but that funny feeling is usually all I'm after...)
     
  5. Zentune

    Zentune Getting on the lift Instructor

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    A discussion like this could literally go on "forever" :duck:

    Nice animation!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
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  6. Read Blinn

    Read Blinn lakespapa Inactive

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    And what happens with the legs is whole 'nother thread.
     
  7. Thread Starter
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    Bob Barnes

    Bob Barnes Getting off the lift Instructor

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    SBrown--that funny feeling? :)

    I'm not sure where it would happen for you, but for me it involves the whole turn and the linkage between them. Like a car going over a sudden rise and drop--is that the feeling you're describing? That feeling would probably happen in the transition, which is the time surrounding the crossing of the two lines, when you feel lightest (and may even be "weightless," airborne), like floating, when there is absolutely no muscular effort going on and you are just allowing the momentum of your feet and skis, and the momentum of your body, to travel unimpeded on their separate, crossing, paths.

    How long this float phase lasts and how intense it is depends on a lot of things, particularly speed and turn size and shape. The more intense the "g-forces" of the middles of the turns (the "shaping phase," "carving phase," or "pressure phase"), the more it will feel like you're being launched from turn to turn--like bouncing higher on a trampoline. Indeed, in highly dynamic turns, regulating the pressure changes by absorbing some of the force with your legs--similar to absorbing a bump--becomes increasingly important.

    Wherever it happens, you have surmised correctly that the route to finding it lies in the Infinity Move!

    How's that? And welcome to the highly technical, overly obtuse, jargon-filled, anal(ytical), technique forums! You belong here.

    :daffy:

    Best regards,
    Bob
     
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  8. Tricia

    Tricia The Velvet Hammer Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    So, is this the medicine ball thingy you talked about?
    Or are we talking about something different?


    Go ahead and use the bandwidth. We encourage it. :popcorn:
     
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  9. SBrown

    SBrown Steve Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    I think most people seek that floaty weightlessness feeling. But it comes as different things to different people. Hence, swingsets. Champagne. Diving boards. Heroin. Skiing.

    Anyway, that animation took me there a little bit. And that's as close as I'll get to jargon, I guess ;-)
     
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  10. Thread Starter
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    Bob Barnes

    Bob Barnes Getting off the lift Instructor

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    Yep--another way of looking at the Medicine Ball thing(y). For those who have not seen that one, here it is:




    And it's also the concept I've previously tried to illustrate with the thought of bouncing laterally back and forth from one trampoline to another, as in this little animation.

    [​IMG]

    It's all the same, intended to help understand the "float phase" and the things that must happen there--and to debunk some of the misinformation and half-truths that surround how to start a turn.

    Best regards,
    Bob

    [Note: edited April 2019 to update broken image link above]
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  11. Tricia

    Tricia The Velvet Hammer Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    I remember having many discussion with @bud heishman about this after ESA.
     
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  12. cantunamunch

    cantunamunch Meh Skier

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    This question reminds me of this little snippet, the 'funny feeling' happening pretty much everywhere except the equilibrium points (go to 1:13+):

     
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  13. Chris Geib

    Chris Geib cgeib Skier

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    Yes, weird to see you here!

    I agree with Bob and usually seek it from the impulse out of one turn as he describes. So, it can begin with the "throw" out of the turn and before "the feet are under that body thing." As @Tricia noted @bud heishman speaks about this like tossing and catching a baby, and we can get that same feeling.

    I think it can also come as you describe "a little bit after" by using a bit of vaulting as we flow across the skis with out the need for a toss out of the prior turn.

    And of course mix some of both, but I think the tummy thing comes on when the bottom drops out and you start the acceleration down.

    But the real reason I replied: Are we skiing Tuesday????
     
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  14. bud heishman

    bud heishman Skiing performance facilitator Instructor

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    I can't believe Bob can make that many turns in a row and not get tired!?
     
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  15. Chris Geib

    Chris Geib cgeib Skier

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    What I don't believe is any image or video that passed through @Bob Barnes computer!
     
  16. Zentune

    Zentune Getting on the lift Instructor

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    To tip left, turn right. To tip right, turn left. Serpentine! :)
     
  17. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    Where is the video of tossing the ball across the hill and catching it? oops. Posted while I wasn't looking.
     
  18. Read Blinn

    Read Blinn lakespapa Inactive

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    I believe it was Paul Lorenz in the Project Kitz video who used the same metaphor. This graphic really works for me — I like that the trampoliner is flexing in transition. :D
     
  19. Kneale Brownson

    Kneale Brownson Out on the slopes Instructor

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    The INFINITY move goes on forever!!!! Thanks, Bob. I think this thread will be viewed frequently on my iPhone by clients.
     
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  20. crgildart

    crgildart Gravity Slave Skier

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    Seems like a vertigo, overhead, top down view of rebound.. with the above being the front view of rebound. Both show different aspects of the motions and positions..
     

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