Ruminations on skiing w/a group -- esp. men

[mister moose]

Groups vary -

Sometimes I ski alone. That way, I pick the trail, I pick the speed, I pick the line, I pick the stopping places, I pick the next lift, and I hit the singles line. I also ski in groups, usually a chairful, sometimes two chairfuls. When you ski in groups, you need to relax and realize you aren't going to pick any of the above, at least not very often. Social skiing begins with 'social'.

And I hear nearly the same complaints from women - I don't want to ski with her, she's too [chatty, fast, gossipy, slow, needy, takes too many breaks, doesn't take enough breaks, doesn't ski my trails, gets out too early, gets out too late, starts at the wrong lift...]

So even if we eliminate the stereotypical alpha male peacocking/competing, that leave plenty of other fertile ground for reasons groups ebb and flow.

Want to know if someone is a good friend? Go ski with them for a day.

 

[mdf]

Hey, I like skiing with people. That's the main reason I'm here! I like to ski with a well matched group, but I also enjoy skiing a run or two with anyone. Heck, I even skied with TwoChordCool!
(I'm talking in-bounds here, responding to the somewhat asocial drift I am seeing in this thread.... out of bounds is a whole different ball of wax.)

Usually a group of 3 or 4 is ideal, sometimes 5. With people who have skied together many times and know what to expect of each other, you can even add a couple more.

Significantly bigger groups can work under limited circumstances -- you need to be a little more structured with a leader in front and a sweeper at the end. And move down the hill as a series of subgroups, regrouping periodically, not one big lump. It's not something I'd want all, day, but it can be good on a limited basis or under special circumstances.

At the Gatherings, we typically start in too-large groups but they settle out on their own. I've been known to say, "this group is too big, lets split it." Or some will want to look for bumps or steeps or trees, and others won't. History says, it works out.

 

[luliski]

I like to ski by myself or in a group, it just depends. I usually ski at one of two mountains that I know well, so if I don't want to go where the group is going I have no problem going my own way.

 

[Andy Mink]

Everyone knows your best turns/jumps/runs happen when you're alone. Your best crashes happen with a group.

 

[Analisa]

I love groups... once we have a day or two together to figure out dynamics. Day 1 is the worst. You’ll inevitably end up really struggling on your new setup the day you first ski with this really cool tele chick who ran a heli ski op in Utah and did a few Alaskan traverses before taking a bit of a touring hiatus to have kids. Or you’ll see the Mantra and Cochise that new guy friends load into your ski rack, make a big fuss about how they can leave you behind if you can’t keep up, and then lead the group down a chute that proves... eventful.

But when you figure out the dynamics, it's soooo good. I skied with a girl named Erica I met through a Facebook group who was looking for another woman to follow around off piste since her husband was not that person and once she got comfortable, we really weren't far apart in terms of ability. Her husband and my boyfriend hit it off as well, and now we all ski together almost every weekend. I decided Erica needed the nickname Big Er, but that I couldn't use it if she didn't actually get air, so we made an agreement to hit something at least once every ski day. I got to take her on her first ski tour. We have roughly the same BSL, which means 2x the quiver. Someone's seriously asked her if she's "Analisa's Erica." Our labs are even best friends. We spend the full weekend up at Stevens Pass camping in their tiny 10x6 Scamp and our built out 4Runner, or when we travel, we'll get the cheap hotel room and trade the showers and hot tub access for them letting our pup crash in the Scamp during the day. This season's shaping up to be even better since they just got a hot tub. That's reason enough to ski with friends.

Are we competitive? Absolutely, but we were both gymnasts, so we what it's like to compete as an individual while competing as a team. Erica's a super strong skier for only going into her 3rd season and it absolutely pushes me to keep progressing. We were both a little complacent skiing with our significant others who are so much bigger and faster and egging each other off 15-20ft drops. It's exciting to ski with someone on your level. And we know where to back off. Erica's just finished up her first season touring and doesn't share quite the same love for type 2 fun, so we're sure to extend the invite for trips like Baker in a day or the Mountaineers Patrol race, but get it if they'd rather hit the lifts.

 

[Ski&ride]

I've skied with plenty of alpha women.

Tell me about it!

Perhaps women are safer partners outside the resort boundary. I wouldn’t know as I don’t go there.

Inbound, I found a group of random guys more supportive than a group of random women, which inevitably have a few alphas.

 

[Monique]

You’ll inevitably end up really struggling on your new setup the day you first ski with this really cool tele chick who ran a heli ski op in Utah and did a few Alaskan traverses before taking a bit of a touring hiatus to have kids. Or you’ll see the Mantra and Cochise that new guy friends load into your ski rack, make a big fuss about how they can leave you behind if you can’t keep up, and then lead the group down a chute that proves... eventful.

 

[Crank]

In my experience larger groups seldom stick together for long. Which is fine. Faster skiers will ski faster and a group of 10 or 15 will eventually break up into 2 or 3 smaller groups.

With my ski club I am usually skiing with nor more than 4-6 people and always a mixed gender group. Sometimes, first run of the day or maybe right after lunch ,there will be a really large group cruising a groomer

Pugski gatherings are similar in that we tend to start with larger groups and people split up fairly quickly.

I have been know to sometimes lag behind and take a wrong turn if I am not happy skiing with a group. I have been know to lag behind and take a wrong turn not at all on purpose as well.

If I am leading a mixed ability group I am cautious and conservative in both speed and route selection.

 

[dbostedo]

Pugski gatherings are similar in that we tend to start with larger groups and people split up fairly quickly.

Yes, that's generally been my experience too. We did have a pretty large and varied-skill-level group at Whistler (14 maybe?) who all wanted to do Peak-to-Creek, which was cool. It was a single run, and with a group that size took much of the morning - but we had a great time doing it (I did at least) - and all stopped for lunch together afterward. Otherwise most PugSki groups have seemed to be 8 or less - so a couple of chairs worth - and morph throughout the day.

I should also note that I'm usually in an intermediate, or mixed, group at the Gatherings, so there is a lot of accommodation, and not much push for people to get over their heads or try things they aren't ready for. Occasionally we have gotten a little over some folks heads, and the more experienced folks have been awfully helpful in getting people through it (Whistler in particular sticks out to me, with @Jilly, @Philpug, and @Lady_Salina helping the intermediates through some deeper snow, fog, or larger-than-expected moguls. Big thanks to those that help with that stuff!)

 

[clong83]

I've skied with plenty of alpha women.

LOL, fair enough. I only have a few female ski buddies that I ski with on any frequency, and in my experience they are a little more chill than some of the guys. Will still ski anything on the mountain, but are just far less peacocky about it.

But yeah, I expect they are out there. Maybe I've just gotten lucky with my choices.

 

[Monique]

I strongly suspect that skiing is much like everything else - the most capable people don't have an ego about it; they feel no sense of competition, so they also feel no need to egg you on. It's the "pretty good" people who push or mock.

The very capable people may be choosy about their groups - but that's a different beast.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

I am not a fan of group skiing. I like skiing. Often, I don't care where I ski but I hate standing around. I hate the "top of the lift" where should we go discussion.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

I thought I was pretty anti social then I read this thread and now I realize I'm a social butterfly. I mean I'm no @Tricia but hey I'm way more social than alot of you appear to be.

 

[Seldomski]

The time for talking is on the lift, lunch, or bar afterwards .

If you can't figure out where to go during the lift ride up/lift line and the last run was good, do that run again until you figure it out. If the run was good and there's not enough time to discuss the next option, why would you go somewhere else anyway? Must be great where you are already!

 

[Big J]

I can and do ski with pretty much anybody and am willing to help anyone if I can. I am not a big fan of group skiing as people in groups usually have egos and other dynamics that make it somewhat difficult to accomodate everyone. I checked my ski ego years ago and have more fun now that I have. I am an expert skier but could really not care any less about being the best skier on the mountain. Instead of trying to be the best and having a bad time I just prefer to ski more for fun. Otherwise you only compete with yourself and make yourself unhappy. I prefer skiing with one or two other people. If the ability levels are much lower I can peel off and make a few expert runs and come back. I learned not to be so serious about it all.

 

[jmeb]

The decision matrix for me is entirely different inbounds vs in the backcountry.

Backcountry: Depends entirely on the day, the planned area, and the objective(s). I'm happy to have a day goofing off in very safe terrain with a sizeable group of people, but that expectation needs to be set well prior to showing up. I'm a bit anal about trying to get BC partners to pin down the plan for the day, and alternates before we ever get to the trailhead. As the objective increase, the group size diminishes and the expectations of levels of training/fitness/ski ability increases. If we are doing any real skiing I'd rather not be in a group of more than 3, and ideally one of those is always a women. There are few things you can do that dramatically increase good decision making in the backcountry as having a female as part of your group. As part of the most likely-to-die-in-an-avalanche demographic (early 30s male who is an advanced skier), I want to do everything I can to set the odds in my favor.

Inbounds: Again, depends so much on the day, where I'm at, and what we expect to do. I love skiing with my family and a big group of friends. I don't want to do that though if it is a good snow day, at a hill I rarely/ever get to ski, and the terrain is game-on. But if it is a whatever snow day at a mountain I've been to and will return to a good bit -- screw the chasing terrain, I chase good vibes with friends and family.

To me the ideal group is 3 or 4 -- as that is how many fits on a chair so you can make quick decisions. Again I'm a planner so I sometimes over-dictate (I've been accused of being a "fun czar" -- trying to over-ensure everyone is having a good time) some guidelines: a meetup time/place within a few hours, and rotating terrain selections between group members. And if terrain selections are too mild for some people, encourage them to go rip separately.

As to how it affects my skiing: I definitely want to ski well when I'm around other people that ski well. So I certainly have to keep an eye on whether I'm pushing my limits of skiing well, or if I'm pushing my limits of risk tolerance. The first is nothing I'm concerned about. Pushing my risk limits is something I prefer to do with a partner/group, but not because of a partner/group. Sometimes my risk tolerance hasn't adjusted to my level of skiing, and having someone I trust to evaluate from the outside whether I'm ready for something is necessary. Without that, I would've never skied some of my favorite lines that have helped improve my skiing, my terrain management, and my decision making.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

I don't have friends. (that ski)

I've been on Ski Patrol for so long that I don't know how to ski in a group for the sake of skiing.. I've grown to dislike skiing with groups outside of my fellow patrollers and family, simply because I've had so much time patrolling that I see the mountain differently and weigh risks much more than others I would ski with. I stop and watch people ski, even if I'm visiting a different mountain I'll still stop most runs and observe groups of skiers and mentally go through them and evaluate what the chances are that they might need help later in the day. That kind of behavior seems to run counter to how I see regular non patrollers out skiing.

Nobody asked you about this, but how do you know which groups are going to need help later in the day? Just curious.

 

[kimmyt]

I prefer groups of four or less. I'm an introvert, so more than that and I get stressed out. Ideally, the group are all the same level as I am and have similar goals/speeds for the day. Also ideally, they all know the mountain so no one person gets put in the role of 'guide' (another thing that stresses me out, and is why I rarely tour guide visiting people on my mountains, because I'm always worried I'll choose the wrong runs or the conditions won't be great or I'll forget which run goes where and I'll feel responsible for ruining their day etc). 3 or 4 compatible people can be good, but I would choose just one other person to ski with on any given day. Sadly, I do most of my skiing alone these days. I enjoy chatting people up on the lift, and once in awhile I might do a run with a stranger, but usually once I start skiing by myselfl I'm happy that I only have myself to please, its just easier that way.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

I ski with groups and I please only myself. You know that you are never responsibile for anyone's else's happiness or level of fun. You provide options and people choose whether to do them and whether to be happy or have fun or not.

 

[Wasatchman]

I am surprised gender is such a notable factor in some people's responses. Of all the sports I have participated in, I have found gender to be the least influential in group participation dynamics. Height, speed, weight, and strength tend to matter more in say basketball or tennis than skiing for example. And as far as attitudes, etc. I usually chalk that more up to individual personality than gender but hey ho, whatever, everyone's experience is different.

I love skiing solo as well as a small group. However, from a safety perspective I don't think it is a good idea to ski alone in the trees or less frequented advanced/expert runs regardless of preference.