Ruminations on skiing w/a group -- esp. men

[jmeb]

I am surprised gender is such a notable factor in some people's responses

Most responses I've seen involving gender have to do with decision making more than ability.

While decision making is individual, numerous studies have shown that men and women--on average--have some real differences.

 

[Doug Briggs]

In another thread, Doug Briggs brought up a really interesting point. He made it in regard to backcountry skiing, but I've thought a lot about the essence of this idea as it applies to my own skiing. His original:

• As an aside, you bring up an interesting factor in backcountry safety. Sometimes (often?) the group dynamic of a crew will actually reduce safety. Many official and unofficial reviews of accidents have attributed decision making to be compromised by a group of more than 2. It boils down to peer pressure and other human factors in the group dynamic.

My thinking: I spend most of my time skiing alone and I've pondered my own reluctance to ski with a group. Part of it is my own natural tendency towards introversion (I'm most comfortable by myself and doing exactly as I want), but in considering, I think part of it is also the sense that in a group of skilled skiers, there's often a unstated sense of being "on trial". Are you good enough to do this run? Are you fast enough to keep up with us? Are you capable enough in trees? Esp. with other men, I feel like we are often testing where we sit in an alpha/beta spectrum. And that undertone is what can lead to the bad decisions that Doug B. is referencing.

Now the truth is that I'm less daring when I ski alone, and being in a group opens me up to terrain (edge-of-boundary eastern trees, for instance) that I might cautiously avoid skiing by myself. I've often had really good experiences when that dynamic encourages me. But riding up the tram at Snowbird, for instance, I get turned off by the bro culture that often surfaces -- guys making fun of "gapers" or humble-bragging about how they missed the turn and had to air off a cliff. It's like there's a constant sense of having to prove one's bones ... and I don't want any part of that whole scene. So even when vaguely approached by someone ("hey, you want to go this way with me?"), I often demur.

So...wondering: do others ever feel this way? Is this sense of competition present all the time in groups? How do others feel about skiing with (relatively) unfamiliar folks in a group or joining some people you meet on a lift? To be honest, I have a few friends I really like skiing with -- but it's often b/c I know them really well and I know we are very closely compatible in our skills and approach. What do others do, for instance, when a group suddenly veers off into some very tight and steep eastern tree line, or takes a traverse to "maybe some air involved"? Is that sense of challenge a positive motivation to you, or intimidation you don't want?

Thoughts?

To give credit where credit is due, @Analisa is the one who first mentioned gender as a factor in BC partners.

 

[Monique]

I love skiing solo as well as a small group. However, from a safety perspective I don't think it is a good idea to ski alone in the trees or less frequented advanced/expert runs regardless of preference.

+1 QFT. (Even if I don't always follow this principle ... I still agree with it)

 

[SBrown]

I thought I was pretty anti social then I read this thread and now I realize I'm a social butterfly. I mean I'm no @Tricia but hey I'm way more social than alot of you appear to be.

I'm changing you to UGASkiButterfly.

 

[Pequenita]

I am surprised gender is such a notable factor in some people's responses.

Most responses I've seen involving gender have to do with decision making more than ability.

While decision making is individual, numerous studies have shown that men and women--on average--have some real differences.

Well, in fairness to the OP, the title of the thread, unless it was edited, mentions gender.

 

[Tricia]

Well, in fairness to the OP, the title of the thread, unless it was edited, mentions gender.

Not edited.

 

[Tricia]

I'm changing you to UGASkiButterfly.

I double dog dare you.

 

[laine]

So interesting to read the replies here. I almost always ski in a group - anywhere from 2 to 6 people. If it's 2 of us, it's me and my husband. I do love skiing, but I also love him, and skiing is how we spend time together. I have been skiing way longer and am more advanced than he is, but I'll ski what he wants to ski, and push him on the things he can do. Or, at the top of a run - or midway down - I'll split off onto a trail that might be too much for him and then we meet at the junction or at the lift.

In the larger groups (6 people), it's the folks in our ski lease cabin - 3 couples, generally a mix of intermediate to advanced. For the folks who want harder terrain, we will still ski together and will reconvene at the lift. It's a mixed-gender group., but it's usually me and one other guy who will push to do the harder runs. There's not really any gender-stereotypical behavior.

But even if we're not together the whole time, we are still social (again, not too social - 6 is our max) and enjoy one another's company.

Really, any day at the mountain makes me happy.

 

[Philpug]

I thought I was pretty anti social then I read this thread and now I realize I'm a social butterfly. I mean I'm no @Tricia but hey I'm way more social than alot of you appear to be.

That's because there is only one @Tricia.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Group dynamics vary greatly depending on the group. I enjoy skiing alone, with my hubby, and in small groups. Large groups are problematic because it entails too much waiting for everyone to catch up. That usually sorts itself out pretty quick. Most people I ski with are more proficient than I, but any pressure I feel is self inflicted-; I can’t think of a single time where someone pushed me to ski terrain beyond my ability. I can remember inadvertently ending up overterrained and being exceedingly grateful to those who talked me through and guided me down. I also have no problem splitting off to ski easier terrain and meeting back at the lift to socialize on the ride up. In fact, my favorite mountains are those that have a good variety of terrain that ends up back at the same place.

 

[firebanex]

Nobody asked you about this, but how do you know which groups are going to need help later in the day? Just curious.

Honestly, a lot of it is based on stereotypes. It sounds unfair and judgmental, but when you've seen the same stuff each and every year for 15 years and notice the trend is pretty true..yeah. Stuff like
-The guy wearing combat boots instead of snowboard boots, I can almost guarantee that we will need to pick him up mid afternoon for screwing up his ankle or knee. I had a new one this year though, the guy had XC ski boots on in a snowboard, thankfully he didn't get hurt! Defied my expectations.
-Anytime we have Asian tourists, a tour group of about 8 is worth at least 2 courtesy rides down the mountain during sweep every time.
-The newbie friend who gets ditched by their advanced friend on a black run, you see them with the rental board hanging with people who know what they are doing.. I cringe and just know I'm gonna find him walking down the run later in the day.
- Rentals walking to the bus with skis upside down, boots not buckled, and coats not zipped. courtesy rides in about 45 minutes about 300 yards from the top of the hill because they can't get their skis back on and have given up.
-That guy or gal wearing jeans and covered in snow. Gonna need a ride if they don't stop first. This one has gotten better over the years, most of the time now they give up prior to getting too cold and requiring help
-The potheads, you can smell them and see it in their eyes, yup gonna go check the "secret" spots during sweep and going to find them baked out of their minds and trying to convince me that the sun didn't set 30 minutes ago and that the area isn't closed yet.
-The folks who use the beginner lift just long enough to figure out how to stand up and then head to the main runs. I watch it happen most weekends, they do like 3 trips on the rope tow and then head to the main runs and either they take 2 hours to get down or we pick them up about 1/3rd of the way down for a courtesy ride.

 

[Jim Kenney]

Honestly, a lot of it is based on stereotypes. It sounds unfair and judgmental, but when you've seen the same stuff each and every year for 15 years and notice the trend is pretty true..yeah. Stuff like
-The guy wearing combat boots instead of snowboard boots, I can almost guarantee that we will need to pick him up mid afternoon for screwing up his ankle or knee. I had a new one this year though, the guy had XC ski boots on in a snowboard, thankfully he didn't get hurt! Defied my expectations.
-Anytime we have Asian tourists, a tour group of about 8 is worth at least 2 courtesy rides down the mountain during sweep every time.
-The newbie friend who gets ditched by their advanced friend on a black run, you see them with the rental board hanging with people who know what they are doing.. I cringe and just know I'm gonna find him walking down the run later in the day.
- Rentals walking to the bus with skis upside down, boots not buckled, and coats not zipped. courtesy rides in about 45 minutes about 300 yards from the top of the hill because they can't get their skis back on and have given up.
-That guy or gal wearing jeans and covered in snow. Gonna need a ride if they don't stop first. This one has gotten better over the years, most of the time now they give up prior to getting too cold and requiring help
-The potheads, you can smell them and see it in their eyes, yup gonna go check the "secret" spots during sweep and going to find them baked out of their minds and trying to convince me that the sun didn't set 30 minutes ago and that the area isn't closed yet.
-The folks who use the beginner lift just long enough to figure out how to stand up and then head to the main runs. I watch it happen most weekends, they do like 3 trips on the rope tow and then head to the main runs and either they take 2 hours to get down or we pick them up about 1/3rd of the way down for a courtesy ride.

VERY ENTERTAINING POST.

 

[karlo]

Maybe it’s like, what is the term, speed dating? Just be open to the opportunity to ski with a group, then come across a wider and wider network of like minded skiers. That’s all very theoretical on my part.

 

[Lauren]

-The potheads, you can smell them and see it in their eyes, yup gonna go check the "secret" spots during sweep and going to find them baked out of their minds and trying to convince me that the sun didn't set 30 minutes ago and that the area isn't closed yet.

Seriously? Has this happened to you? "Nah man...lifts haven't closed yet"

 

[Carl]

Most of the time I ski with one other person,... a long time friend, brother-in-law, daughter. Occasionally I get out as a group with some of my college buddies but that has become rarer as the years go by. I enjoy skiing with others because it can be a good social activity. There's plenty of time to chat on the chair lift and catch up on things. I don't judge other people's ability. The only time other skier bother me is when they are disrespectful to others or ski out of control and put others in potential danger.

 

[SkierGolferNH]

For me, skiing with a group always meant that we rode the lift together. While skiing it's everyone for themselves and a "meet you at the bottom" mentality. We have some guys who "enjoy both turns" they ski so fast, and others who really enjoy the g-forces of making fast, swooping turns. We understand who we are and live with it. We enjoy each other's company on the lift.

 

[Monique]

Maybe it’s like, what is the term, speed dating? Just be open to the opportunity to ski with a group, then come across a wider and wider network of like minded skiers. That’s all very theoretical on my part.

This is how I've met 90% of my ski buddies - through a seasonal lesson program. Over time, you get to ski with a lot of people and figure out if you're compatible socially and ski-ly.

For me, skiing with a group always meant that we rode the lift together. While skiing it's everyone for themselves and a "meet you at the bottom" mentality. We have some guys who "enjoy both turns" they ski so fast, and others who really enjoy the g-forces of making fast, swooping turns. We understand who we are and live with it. We enjoy each other's company on the lift.

A few people have made comments like this, and said they like lifts that service a variety of terrain. That's well and good, but my favorite parts of the mountain are usually isolated (above tree line) with no groomed or blue options (sometimes nothing marked single black, although something marked double black isn't always that hard). It really depends on where you're skiing as well as the spread of the group's interests.

 

[Plai]

-Anytime we have Asian tourists, a tour group of about 8 is worth at least 2 courtesy rides down the mountain during sweep every time.

This statement implies that being Asian is the cause of the need for help, which I doubt is your intent. The others in your list have personality traits, experience/training gaps that have yet to be filled. While it may not be as funny, it would help me if you could couch it better. FWIW... I don't doubt your observational skills. [Sorry, you touched a sore point with me I guess.]

 

[Monique]

This statement implies that being Asian is the cause of the need for help, which I doubt is your intent. The others in your list have personality traits, experience/training gaps that have yet to be filled. While it may not be as funny, it would help me if you could couch it better. FWIW... I don't doubt your observational skills. [Sorry, you touched a sore point with me I guess.]

Agreed. Was also thinking this, was not sure how to phrase it. It comes across as racist. I bet there are characteristics of certain tourist groups that "ping" your attention; they may correlate in some cases to Asian groups, but I bet there are plenty of Asian visitors who don't ping for you. You just don't notice them because they're not on your radar as potential problems.

FWIW, we have some wonderful Asian contributors and amazing skiers on pugski.

 

[KingGrump]

This statement implies that being Asian is the cause of the need for help, which I doubt is your intent. The others in your list have personality traits, experience/training gaps that have yet to be filled. While it may not be as funny, it would help me if you could couch it better. FWIW... I don't doubt your observational skills. [Sorry, you touched a sore point with me I guess.]

Perhaps @firebanex meant they are so easy to spot with their Asian fit goggles or what not.
Pic was posted in another thread previously.

I cringed too when I read that. But then I remembered, (of course in the distant past), how often I would looked at a bunch of clueless Asians getting off the bus and think "Fresh Air Fund." We all have our prejudices. I am no exception. Although most of us have learn not to say it out loud.
New thread - "Sh*t we used to say but can't anymore."

Now, I see the same bus load of clueless Asians and think "a step in the right direction." We all can grow and change. .

Couple of things I learned over 40 years of skiing. I AM the Asian tourist wherever I go.
On the flip side. A local is someone who hasn't gotten his sh*t together to travel.