Never tuned a ski and I'm thinking of starting

[Jacques]

The shopping is going very well. I'm down to brushes and then diamond stones and edge guides so I can deburr and touch up the side edges. I'll post pictures once everything arrives. Thanks so much to everyone here for answering my questions. I'm sure they're will be more regarding technique!

I'm going to get fixed bevel guides and I see that racewax.com has some for what looks to be a good price. I don't know which ones I might need so I might get the set of three. $15 each or 3 for $40.
For the base guide the Beast ones look good. Any comments on either?

BEAST base guides are super. I'm sure others have different opinions.
I like the base BEAST Pro as it does not need spring clamps! Spring clamps kinda suck in my book. The stainless steel glide plate it the best for bases.
If you get a Side Of The Beast Pro, see this video to improve it.

 

[Jacques]

@TheArchitect who cares what company sets edges at. Base angle is still issue, as it's not so easy to reset it, but side angle really doesn't matter. You will need to file a bit more for first time to reset it, but that's it. And personally for allround skis, I would stick with 3 degrees regardless of what skis had when they got out of factory.

^ TRUTH

 

[François Pugh]

The reason why not is because they will never get used. I have a couple of guides from before I settled on 87 for everything. They just sit there and are hard to sell. It's not like you can go back and forth, once the edge is set you stick with what you have usually.

I prefer the ones with thumbwheels to hold the stone/file on myself, but if you want to use one that needs a clamp to hold the cutting tool on that's fine I guess.

Never say never.
I am a big fan of 0.5 base, 3 side. However, my Volkl P50 F1 Energy skis came with 1 base 2 side. I decided to try that tune out for a while, and found it worked better in moguls; with a 1:2 instead of a 0.5,3, it's easier to manage feathering the edge when not carving clean turns. So I dedicated the P50 as my mogul ski and tune it at 1:2 (88* bevel required). I also discovered that even at 0.5, 2 filing my Volants was begining to reach the stainless steel cap. I don't what that to disappear! So it's now getting a 1 degree side bevel (89*).

 

[Doug Briggs]

A .5 base bevel makes a ski a lot twitchier. I'd suggest a 1 for base on any ski unless you are racing. I like 3 side for hard stuff, 2 for the rest, but I'm still pretty happy with a sharp 2 if things are firm. I like to carve the groomers on all my skis from the SLs up to the fat powder skis. The only skis I have a 3 on are my WROD, only-going-to-ski-groomer skis. Even my MX 98s are 1/2.

Just a POV from someone that has the opportunity to change bevels on a whim. I pretty much set and forget after deciding what the ski will primarily be used for.

And while the manufacturer may usually come in at x/y, don't count on it. Get it set or at least verified and use what you like. Most skis are around 1/2 out of the wrapper.

 

[Jacques]

I ski lot's of soft groomed snow. Not much ice. 1/4 is what I have several set to now and that works for me. Every thing else is 1/3.
Find what you like and forget any "factory" bevels as they are usually quite inconsistent along the length of the edges anyway!

 

[TheArchitect]

Skip the swix and buy a Beast 3 degree edge guide. Have your edges ground to 3 degrees by your shop.
I use a 400 and 600 Diaface stone as often as needed to keep them sharp.
Bearing in mind that the tempered edge you get from a top machine tune will hold an edge much longer than a hand sharpened edge. So I go easy on th hand tunes till I need.
I’m not a pro but I think that if your edges are in need of a file you’re better off at a shop or with a edge machine.

I agree. Anything more than a touch up I'd rather take it to SkiMD and let them deal with it.

 

[Jacques]

Skip the swix and buy a Beast 3 degree edge guide. Have your edges ground to 3 degrees by your shop.
I use a 400 and 600 Diaface stone as often as needed to keep them sharp.
Bearing in mind that the tempered edge you get from a top machine tune will hold an edge much longer than a hand sharpened edge. So I go easy on th hand tunes till I need.
I’m not a pro but I think that if your edges are in need of a file you’re better off at a shop or with a edge machine.

True a machine tune will hold a bit longer due to heat treating from the fast spinning stones. Yet those tunes can be quite hit and miss for consistency along the entire edge.
Would you skate an ice skate with a warbly blade? A nice true hand tune may need to be worked a bit more frequently, yet the trueness of the edge is much better in my opinion.
Don't be afraid of using a file to set your own edges! Then use the same guide to touch them up with. You will be fine!

 

[Sibhusky]

Let him start out small. He's got years to build up to that

 

[Philpug]

I missed it, has anyone suggested a sidewall planer so he can pull back the sidewalls and fully access the edges for a good side bevel?

 

[Marker]

These are the ticket. Stainless steel pins that contact the edge instead of plastic or aluminum. And they're on sale for closeout. I have the blue 1* guide.

https://www.artechski.com/swix-world-cup-base-edge-beveler-closeout/

 

[François Pugh]

I missed it, has anyone suggested a sidewall planer so he can pull back the sidewalls and fully access the edges for a good side bevel?

By all means you should start tuning your skis.
If you ski a lot of hard icy snow sharpening your edges is a requirement, if not then maybe start with waxing.
For waxing you will need a good iron, either one of the more expensive (don't cheap out on this) specific ski waxing iron, or a massive electric iron with adjustable temperature predating steam irons (like the one your grandmother used in the early 1900s).
View attachment 56412
You will need a plastic scraper.
You will NEED a nylon brush;

For sharpening, buy a solid metal single angle sidewall angle guide, buy a good set of diamond stones, buy a coarse and a fine file, buy a sidewall planer. Eventually you will purchase a base bevel guide, but the bases rarely need to be done.

I started out waxing, being afraid to sharpen my edges, but a poor tuning job convinced me to do my own sharpening, and it turned out to be not that hard to do.

 

[Steve]

These are the ticket. Stainless steel pins that contact the edge instead of plastic or aluminum. And they're on sale for closeout. I have the blue 1* guide.

https://www.artechski.com/swix-world-cup-base-edge-beveler-closeout/

Thanks! Just ordered one, I do very very little to my base edges, but the base guide I have is too narrow for my stones, so I've been using an adjustable one I bought years ago when I need to lightly stone a base edge. These are wide enough.

 

[BLspruce2]

One thing to keep in mind is the level of skis you are asked to sharpen. Rental class skis ideally should be machine sharpened as they have a harder Rockwell edge. They are a bitch to hand sharpen and will ruin your stones, files and other sharpening tools needlessly. Years ago K2 imported Chinese rental skis with edges that where so hard they almost couldn't be sharpened by machine let alone hand. High end and racing skis have a lower Rockwell temper (higher carbon though) so they can be hand sharpened. I know this sounds counterintuitive but its true and makes sense. Rental skis will take more abuse and a designed for machine sharpening a few times a season or as needed. Racing skis are lovingly tuned by technicians for each race. People may not believe me but I have Rockwell testing equipment at my company and verified it myself as I was skeptical. The highest Rockwell I tested was my daughters small child ski. It was designed to probably never be sharpened. Let me give you another interesting example. There is always an argument if high end Japanese or German kitchen knifes are best. Well both are equally sharp but Japanese knifes are tempered to a higher Rockwell so once sharp they last longer. But they can be brittle, chip and must be handled with greater care. German knifes are tempered to a lower Rockwell so their sharp edge do not last as long but can be more easily sharpened. They are also less likely to break or chip if dropped and can handle more abuse. So neither is better, they just are built to different ideas of what best is.

 

[jmeb]

I don't get all the advice to immediately reset the side edge to 3 degrees.

Facts:
- He likes how his skis ski now. All he is looking to do is maintain that performance.
- Setting a more aggressive edge requires more regular maintenance
- He is new to tuning.

Just get an 88 degree bevel. A well tuned 88 is going to be nearly as good as a 87. Especially if you don't touch up your skis nearly every session.

 

[jmeb]

People may not believe me but I have Rockwell testing equipment at my company and verified it myself as I was skeptical. The highest Rockwell I tested was my daughters small child ski. It was designed to probably never be sharpened

It's not that I don't believe you, it's that I'm skeptical. It is my understanding that nearly all the high quality edges in the world come from a few manufacturers in Europe. And that unless your the size of Amer, you don't get custom jobs.

While your testing may have been valid on the sample of skis you tested, I wonder what a wide study would find.

 

[KingGrump]

I missed it, has anyone suggested a sidewall planer so he can pull back the sidewalls and fully access the edges for a good side bevel?

I believe the OP is still at the debur and wax stage.

 

[TheArchitect]

I don't get all the advice to immediately reset the side edge to 3 degrees.

Facts:
- He likes how his skis ski now. All he is looking to do is maintain that performance.
- Setting a more aggressive edge requires more regular maintenance
- He is new to tuning.

Just get an 88 degree bevel. A well tuned 88 is going to be nearly as good as a 87. Especially if you don't touch up your skis nearly every session.

I believe the OP is still at the debur and wax stage.

jmeb and KingGrump sum it up pretty well. I really, really appreciate all of the advice from everyone but right now I'm starting out and want to focus on learning proper basic maintenance at home. I have an excellent shop in SkiMD 10 minutes from my house so for the time being I'm going to continue to let them do the major work. I'm only asking for input on guides so that I can use them with diamond stones for deburring and sharpening.

 

[TheArchitect]

These are the ticket. Stainless steel pins that contact the edge instead of plastic or aluminum. And they're on sale for closeout. I have the blue 1* guide.

https://www.artechski.com/swix-world-cup-base-edge-beveler-closeout/

Enabler!!!

Not only does Artechski have this on sale but they have the 88* WC swix side bevel guide for 50% off. Tempting.

 

[cantunamunch]

j I'm only asking for input on guides so that I can use them with diamond stones for deburring and sharpening.

...and figuring out what skis are already set to.

 

[TheArchitect]

Yeah, that too!