• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Steve

SkiMangoJazz
Pass Pulled
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,338
Agree with the Grump-man. I use the steel brush to clean out the bases and renew the structure. Pre-waxing.
Also good to get one of those razorblade scrapers they use to take inspection stickers off. https://www.tognar.com/p-tex-microhair-shaver-hand-tool/ $7.95

First steel-brush the skis to clean out some of the old wax, dirt and grime.
Then run the razor edge over the skis to scrape off any ptex hairs, etc.
Then wax, dry, scrape, brush.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,196
Location
NYC
I really don’t want to tune skis.

When you move up the food chain in terms of skiing ability. You will want to because you can actually feel the difference between a good tune and a bad tune.
Before retirement, we used to drop off our ski on our way off the hill as part of a seasonal tune program. Each of us in the family have three skis on the program. By the end of the season, all the skis are pretty thin from all the base grinds and machine tunes. Not to mention the tunes were so so. Back then time was money. Now, I like to enjoy my skiing. So I tune them myself.

Most shops will do a shop tune on your skis. As I said before, the quality is just meh. Better than no tune. Just Barely though.

Don't do it. You live in Utah.

If I still lived in Utah, I would throw my files away and use my diamond stones to round off the edges of all my new skis.

dm

Ah, the promised land flowing with milk and honey myth.
I have put in lots of days at DV since early '80s. DV has their share of firm groomers. Firm (icy), even by SVT standards. You will still need your edges sharp.
 

Dave Marshak

All Time World Champion
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
1,452
I have put in lots of days at DV since early '80s. DV has their share of firm groomers. Firm (icy), even by SVT standards. You will still need your edges sharp.
If I still lived in Utah, I would stay home those days, like all the other locals.

The worst day I ever skied in Utah was better than the typical February Catskill day. I'm still going with round edges for Utah.

dm
 

Jacques

Workin' It on Skis Best I Can
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
1,614
Location
Bend, OR
Out with the coarse bronze and in with the steel.

"BEAST Stainless Steel/Horsehair Oval: Designed primarily as a pre-waxing base conditioning brush for removal of oxidation and to enhance the structure. The fine steel fibers have a gentle cutting action."

Great brush. When a ski is waxed properly, your not going to "enhance" structure though. You will make quick work to clean structure after scraping the ski.
It's the first brush I use every time. A few passes with it and move to brass, then stiff horse hair if the snow is dry.
BTW their brass comes in a rectangle only. It's a must to have.

3076Z-2_a3c0a883-288c-4826-ac3d-4896cf437202_400x400.jpg
 
Thread Starter
TS
TheArchitect

TheArchitect

Working to improve all the time
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Posts
3,383
Location
Metrowest Boston
I need to do a bit more reading on what brushes get used when and for what types of wax. Do I have this remotely right?

Steel or "Steel Structuring" - Base conditioning/prep, prior to hot wax
Med. bronze - first brush to use after scraping (hot scraping or scraping of final wax?)
Stiff nylon - Removing wax from base structure and initial polishing
Soft blue nylon - Final polishing of wax
White nylon - Polishing hydrocarbon wax
Horsehair - ??
 

Jacques

Workin' It on Skis Best I Can
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
1,614
Location
Bend, OR
I need to do a bit more reading on what brushes get used when and for what types of wax. Do I have this remotely right?

Steel or "Steel Structuring" - Base conditioning/prep, prior to hot wax
Med. bronze - first brush to use after scraping (hot scraping or scraping of final wax?)
Stiff nylon - Removing wax from base structure and initial polishing
Soft blue nylon - Final polishing of wax
White nylon - Polishing hydrocarbon wax
Horsehair - ??

First lesson. Forget everything you learned. BEAST used to make a stiff stainless. Now that brush would and still does (or can) do some structuring. So glad to have one!
 

Sibhusky

Whitefish, MT
Skier
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Posts
4,804
Location
Whitefish, MT
I'm in the camp that only uses metal brushes prior to waxing. After waxing, I use a scraper, then a stiff horse hair, then the soft horse hair, then the soft nylon, done. The relative stiffness of the horsehair is only due to being cut to different lengths, near as I can tell. The shorter cut produces a stiffer brush. You can tell better with your thumb running across it which brush to use first and last than by what the material is. I'm also a rotobrush fan, intermixing the roto with the regular brushes as I go. One of the best Christmas gifts I've ever gotten, that rotobrush set.
 

jmeb

Enjoys skiing.
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
4,489
Location
Colorado
I need to do a bit more reading on what brushes get used when and for what types of wax. Do I have this remotely right?

Steel or "Steel Structuring" - Base conditioning/prep, prior to hot wax
Med. bronze - first brush to use after scraping (hot scraping or scraping of final wax?)
Stiff nylon - Removing wax from base structure and initial polishing
Soft blue nylon - Final polishing of wax
White nylon - Polishing hydrocarbon wax
Horsehair - ??

YMMV, but in my experience, no recreational skier needs 5, let alone 6 brushes.

Yes people who are tuning obsessive in this forum may encourage such pedantry. And yes it may give you nominally more glide for a run or two.

Buying and convincing yourself to use each of the 5 brushes makes for an overly complex process where the marginal gains are...marginal. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good when it comes to tuning. To me, 2 rotor brushes will probably get used more and therefore create just as good as skiing platform as 5 hand brushes.

If the Q&P is good enough for Doug Coombs, it's probably good enough for the rest of us ;).

 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,611
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
I use a metal brush sometimes to remove p-tex hairs prior to waxing. I use a nylon brush after scraping. Yes, a steel brush can add structure, but it's more likely in my hands to take away the structure from my last base-grind. Brass, used carefully is good enough for me. Sometimes. when I'm in a hurry, I will very carefully use the brass prior to the nylon, but I avoid that behaviour.
 

Steve

SkiMangoJazz
Pass Pulled
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
2,338
Following is my waxing steps from a doc I made a while ago. One thing that I suggest is that you get a clean inexpensive paint brush to wipe off the bases between steps. So after scraping for example you wipe off all the shaved wax, after the first brush pass, the same. This will help in many ways, in particular keeping your brushes clean. I also run my brushes along the sharp edge of the table between passes to clean out the bristles.

Of great importance is your iron technique. Some people move it around a lot, circular movements, back and forth, etc. In all cases you never want to leave it in one place. Me, I like to go extremely slowly tip to tail leaving a nice 2-4" molten layer behind the iron. Doing this is very satisfying. Often I need to go back a little as a section didn't melt, but when it works in one pass with no back and forth it's a good feeling - technique! Also as Mike D. told me years ago, always keep a very slight upwards pull on the iron, away from the base, so it's not putting hardly any pressure on the base. This both protects the bases from excess heat and also creates a little suction that helps to evenly melt the wax. Slow motion with a slight lift.

I do three passes, two as above, the third with a sheet of fiberlene between the iron and the base.

Steps

Drip wax on the base, you don't need a lot.

Run the iron tip to tail very slowly over the base, applying a slight upwards pull on the iron. Do not leave it in one place as it will burn the base. Evenly spread the wax. Do not heat to the point of feeling more than a little warmth on the tops. If the wax is smoking the iron is too hot, turn it down. If the wax isn't melting the iron is too cool, turn it up. Easy way to set iron temperature.

Two passes like this, the first has to be slower to melt the drops of wax. Third pass with fiberlene between the iron and the base.

Remove wax from the edges with a plastic scraper before it dries is a little easier than later.

Let the wax dry for at least ½ hour, or overnight or longer.

Use a very sharp plastic scraper (sharpen often with a panzar file and/or burnishing tool - or an electric sharpener.)

Moving tip to tail in longish strokes remove as much wax as you can.

Wipe off loose wax shavings with a paint brush.

Use a brass brush tip to tail to remove any remaining wax.

Wipe off loose wax shavings with a paint brush.

Use a horsehair brush to finish wax removal and to polish the base.

Scrape off any residue from the edges and sidewalls.
 
Thread Starter
TS
TheArchitect

TheArchitect

Working to improve all the time
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Posts
3,383
Location
Metrowest Boston
YMMV, but in my experience, no recreational skier needs 5, let alone 6 brushes.

Yes people who are tuning obsessive in this forum may encourage such pedantry. And yes it may give you nominally more glide for a run or two.

Buying and convincing yourself to use each of the 5 brushes makes for an overly complex process where the marginal gains are...marginal. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good when it comes to tuning. To me, 2 rotor brushes will probably get used more and therefore create just as good as skiing platform as 5 hand brushes.

If the Q&P is good enough for Doug Coombs, it's probably good enough for the rest of us ;).


I agree. I'm just trying to understand the types and when to use them so I can make an informed decision. Reading the forum and various websites there are a lot of different opinions. I want the basic approach for now and if I need to add a brush or two in the future I will.

Right now I think I need 3 (1 for pre-waxing and 2 for after). Steel, med. bronze and either a soft nylon or horsehair seem to be the three that come up most often.
 

Wilhelmson

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
May 2, 2017
Posts
4,328
I agree. I'm just trying to understand the types and when to use them so I can make an informed decision. Reading the forum and various websites there are a lot of different opinions. I want the basic approach for now and if I need to add a brush or two in the future I will.

Right now I think I need 3 (1 for pre-waxing and 2 for after). Steel, med. bronze and either a soft nylon or horsehair seem to be the three that come up most often.

You really don't need all that stuff to get started.

Have the shop file your edges and do whatever base work you might need. Start with vises, iron, plexi scraper, swix universal diamond stone, aluminium side bevel guide, gummi stone, nylon brush and universal wax.

I picked up a brass brush in year two and while I like it we had just as much fun without it.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,196
Location
NYC
Wax Brushes.jpg


This are the brushes in my travel kit.
Most used are the horse hair and nylon (roto & hand).
Hot wax, scrape, horse hair and nylon is my standard routine.
If the base looks a bit dry or rough, I hit it with the brass to clean out the base. Hot scrape with a base prep wax before the standard hot wax routine.
Don't use the steel much. Only when the structure looks flat or during spring time when a more open structure is beneficial.

I try to do the minimal to get by. I am here to ski, not to work as a ski tech.

Like @Steve mentioned, get a 4" natural bristle brush to keep things clean. Don't need to be fancy just dense and natural bristles.
 
Thread Starter
TS
TheArchitect

TheArchitect

Working to improve all the time
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Posts
3,383
Location
Metrowest Boston
You really don't need all that stuff to get started.

Have the shop file your edges and do whatever base work you might need. Start with vises, iron, plexi scraper, swix universal diamond stone, aluminium side bevel guide, gummi stone, nylon brush and universal wax.

Too late! I practically have a full tuning shop en-route to my house! ogsmile Brushes, stones and some sort of storage solution are all that's left. Filing will left to SkiMD, like you suggest.
 

Wilhelmson

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
May 2, 2017
Posts
4,328
Too late! I practically have a full tuning shop en-route to my house! ogsmile Brushes, stones and some sort of storage solution are all that's left. Filing will left to SkiMD, like you suggest.

Cool, happy tuning!
 

Jacques

Workin' It on Skis Best I Can
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
1,614
Location
Bend, OR
I'm in the camp that only uses metal brushes prior to waxing. After waxing, I use a scraper, then a stiff horse hair, then the soft horse hair, then the soft nylon, done. The relative stiffness of the horsehair is only due to being cut to different lengths, near as I can tell. The shorter cut produces a stiffer brush. You can tell better with your thumb running across it which brush to use first and last than by what the material is. I'm also a rotobrush fan, intermixing the roto with the regular brushes as I go. One of the best Christmas gifts I've ever gotten, that rotobrush set.

A stiff hair brush has bristles that are from closer to the root. If one has a cat, you know how much stiffer a whisker is at the root! ;)
 

Jacques

Workin' It on Skis Best I Can
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
1,614
Location
Bend, OR
I agree. I'm just trying to understand the types and when to use them so I can make an informed decision. Reading the forum and various websites there are a lot of different opinions. I want the basic approach for now and if I need to add a brush or two in the future I will.

Right now I think I need 3 (1 for pre-waxing and 2 for after). Steel, med. bronze and either a soft nylon or horsehair seem to be the three that come up most often.

Yea, that's all you need. It's how you use them. Scrape like crazy before one hits the skis.
 

Sponsor

Top