IKON the Lightning Rod

[Skisailor]

I thought that I had heard that while the slopes may be mostly empty, that chair would still get crowded some days to get out of the base area. Is that accurate?

Occasionally on a powder day or on race days the old Ramchsrger would get crowded. But that is usually just first thing in the morning for a half an hour or so. The bigger powder day crowd is usually at Swift current since people are trying to get to the Bowl and the tram line.

There are still a big early morning crowds at the new lift on race days. But so what? You might get up there 5 minutes earlier than you would have before with the new lift. Plus we are talking maybe 20-35 days out of 150 days.

And keep in mind - even a super LONG line at Big Sky might be 15 - 20 minutes max. Happens sometimes during Christmas and Presidents week.

This lift was not necesssary at this time. It was built so Big Sky could say it has the first of its kind in North America. It has also been down a lot and has frequent stoppages. Not sure what the issues have been there. I think a lot of locals are scratching their heads on this one.

What is truly necessary NOW is some redundancy for getting up the main mountain! When Swifty goes down we are in a world of hurt. There are plans to build a new gondola up to The Bowl but that’s still a couple of years away. How the 8 pack got prioritized is a mystery. It wasn’t even mentioned in the original 2025 plan that I can recall.

 

[Talisman]

It seems like that chair was pure marketing - not necesssry now or in the foreseeable future.

It seems like marketing as the Ramcharger 8 has 64 chairs (sometimes fewer) and the old Ramcharger had 128 quad chairs so uphill capacity didn't improve. Having a HSQ at Shedhorn has helped with dispersing the "crowds" and made lapping the area faster.

 

[Tom K.]

I was disappointed in the level of Jackson skiers over the few days we were there. One of the best guys had one leg, skiing steep moguls under the I don't know the name chair. Impressive even if he'd had two legs.
Maybe all the good skiers are off piste?

Correct. Where else?!

I've been skiing JH since I was a kid. First family mini-trip (dropping down from Bridger Bowl) was probably in 1969 or 70. Starting in 1980 (my year of ski bumming), I haven't missed a year, except for the one I'll call my Collar Bone Year.

I have mixed feelings about the changes over the decades. Part of me is stoked to see them succeed. Note 1: Skiing operations did not turn a penny of profit until about 1985 IIRC.

But a bigger part of me misses the old, much less developed and less crowded experience. Note 2: If the snow is worth a darn in Rendezvous Bowl, there has always been a three car wait in the tram line. Previously with the ~ 60 person tram, and now with the 100+ person tram. I suspect it would be a three tram wait if it held 250 people.

And now, IKON or not, the crowding has gotten to be a significant factor. Enough that I'm not sure it's my place anymore. My question is at what point do they stop seeking more skier visits. Year after year increases in the neighborhood of 10% are certainly not sustainable.

 

[dbostedo]

My question is at what point do they stop seeking more skier visits. Year after year increases in the neighborhood of 10% are certainly not sustainable.

They may not ever quit seeking more visits... they may just let the crowding be its own control - i.e. the visits will stop growing when people quit coming because it's too crowded. But they'll keep seeking more visits.

 

[Wasatchman]

Since this is the first year of the IKON pass and year where most of the west is getting hammered with snow, I wonder how much of the skier traffic is because of a multi resort pass or because the snow is sooooo good.

I believe IKON has had a huge difference! Brighton used to be more crowded than Solitude, and now it's noticeably the opposite. In addition, employees at both resorts have told me IKON has brought noticeably more people.

This is more than just snow. Although I believe Utah is/will become more crowded regardless if multi-passes, it's pretty much undeniable IKON has had a big impact here. In fact, I haven't heard from one Utah local that argues otherwise.

 

[Andy Mink]

In another thread we have been discussing how to get more people into a sport that, apparently, has been declining. If the number of skiers truly is declining where are all these people coming from? Are they going to the IKON/Epic areas at the cost of smaller local places? Or are we really not seeing the decline in numbers some have claimed?

 

[Philpug]

In another thread we have been discussing how to get more people into a sport that, apparently, has been declining. If the number of skiers truly is declining where are all these people coming from? Are they going to the IKON/Epic areas at the cost of smaller local places? Or are we really not seeing the decline in numbers some have claimed?

Yes, skiing is declining because the resorts are too crowded.

 

[Wilhelmson]

If I'm in a traffic jam I blame myself for waking up too late.

You guys are lucky we want to buy a condo otherwise we'd be packing our bags for UT or CO right now.

 

[Wasatchman]

The West is growing and and the East is declining, that's the big discrepancy. And statistics show Utah is growing in ski visits.

And yes, Vail is also gaining market share.

It is what it is, but Utah is noticeably more crowded. To the point that I view the Cottonwood resorts as unskiable on weekends.

 

[cantunamunch]

If the number of skiers truly is declining where are all these people coming from? Are they going to the IKON/Epic areas at the cost of smaller local places? Or are we really not seeing the decline in numbers some have claimed?

Or are the declining numbers of skiers getting better at making guesses about good snow days and bad snow days, and focusing on skiing the good ones?

Staying with the traffic jam analogy - everyone knows the alternate routing and so the alternate gets clogged.

Skiers can finally arbitrate for snow conditions over other factors, instead of being stuck in the highway of high cost alternate choices. Go IKON, more power to ya.

 

[Coach13]

Yes, skiing is declining because the resorts are too crowded.

You really think so? That like Yogi Berra’s restaurant quote, “No one goes there anymore. It’s too crowded”.

 

[Lorenzzo]

Maybe fewer people are skiing more days.

 

[Lorenzzo]

Skiers can finally arbitrate for snow conditions over other factors, instead of being stuck in the highway of high cost alternate choices. Go IKON, more power to ya.

Was this not possible with an Epic Pass?

 

[Andy Mink]

Maybe fewer people are skiing more days.

I resemble that remark. More retirees getting back into the sport or having more free time to go more often perhaps.

 

[cantunamunch]

Was this not possible with an Epic Pass?

Certainly. And I loved the Epic pass when that came out, even as limited in choice as it was then.

 

[givethepigeye]

its mostly the economy, pure and simple. Plus its easier to get there now. More flights in direct from hubs. It used to take some effort to get there. We have traveled to JH every year since 2003 (stayed at same hotel as well until this year). 2008-2010, hotel in the village was a ghost town. ski on lifts and walk on trams during weekdays. It will reset, it always does. Add-in Social Media, good snow and FOMO and its a perfect storm.

 

[SShore]

This lift was not necesssary at this time. It was built so Big Sky could say it has the first of its kind in North America. It has also been down a lot and has frequent stoppages. Not sure what the issues have been there. I think a lot of locals are scratching their heads on this one.

They certainly have had a learning curve on it. My wife's instructor told her that one day they loaded the chairs too close together and on one of the longer spans there were chairs almost touching the ground. They had to stop the lift and evacuate some people.

I haven't noticed the lift lines on Ramcharger being any longer this year but I certainly have noticed more people on the runs. Last year I almost always had Silver Knife and Tippy"s Tumble to myself and now this year they are always crowded.

 

[Ogg]

Maybe fewer people are skiing more days.

I’m skiing more days and traveling more to do it because of my ikon pass, without a doubt. I’m almost ready to give up on eastern skiing entirely.

 

[Philpug]

I’m skiing more days and traveling more to do it because of my ikon pass, without a doubt. I’m almost ready to give up on eastern skiing entirely.

In reality for you to get to skiing west is not that much different in time than it is than it is to get to New England.

 

[cantunamunch]

In reality for you to get to skiing west is not that much different in time than it is than it is to get to New England.

And he should, unless there is a cost multiplier, like kids on planes.

I would like to point out that fewer kids -and more adults of whatever age - flying west is completely consistent with the diminishing skier market premise.