IKON the Lightning Rod

[Ogg]

In reality for you to get to skiing west is not that much different in time than it is than it is to get to New England.

Exactly and I drive a gas pig truck so the travel expense is close too.

 

[headybrew]

But it does raise an interesting question: How much of the crowding is vexing people who aren't locals? Are locals the canary in the coal mine or just an outlier?

Thats the rub. For a Denverite the traffic in Winter Park on the busiest holiday is still less than what they may experience during a daily commute on I-25 while the people who live up here moved here because sitting in traffic on I-25 is never acceptable in their opinion. So the average front range skier will still be happy long after the local has deemed the area unsuitable to live. There seems to be very little overlap.

 

[JohnnyG]

all Jackson locals are triple black diamond experts

And they all started as beginners at one point, so let everyone ski.

 

[AmyPJ]

Or are the declining numbers of skiers getting better at making guesses about good snow days and bad snow days, and focusing on skiing the good ones?

Staying with the traffic jam analogy - everyone knows the alternate routing and so the alternate gets clogged.

Skiers can finally arbitrate for snow conditions over other factors, instead of being stuck in the highway of high cost alternate choices. Go IKON, more power to ya.

The "bad" days (meaning, it's been awhile since it's snowed, or, it's 2 days after a big snow) are my FAVORITE days. The powder hounds don't bother (unless they're die hards and know where to go) and off-piste often settles down and is just lovely to ski. Heck, a week or two after a big snow are often fabulous. The locals don't bother. Me? That's why I have no true powder skis and a quiver of all-mountain or frontside skis

OK, I take that back. I had an epic day a few weeks ago when it snowed all day (a good foot) then the sun came out at around 2:00 and people had already cleared out. THAT was fun.

Anyway, Snowbasin has become that alternate route during the traffic jam. Me no likey.

 

[givethepigeye]

I’m skiing more days and traveling more to do it because of my ikon pass, without a doubt. I’m almost ready to give up on eastern skiing entirely.

^ this is me - between a MC pass and a Epic Local, And living in the SE. Helps that I have a job that puts me on a plane almost weekly.- ill get my days out West.

 

[Green08]

$$$ The real questions is going to be how visits trend the next several years if the Ikon v Epic duopoly begins to stabilize.

Unless somebody working inside a ski school can vouch for growth in beginner lessons this uptick can only have a limited set of explanations.

For the skier on a multi resort pass this is just a factor of perceived value $$$. Ikon is a shiny new toy people will want to use = uptick in visits. Most Ikon areas are having a good snow year, especially early season in CO = uptick. Skiers in major metro areas (SEA, SFO, LA, SLC, DEN) believing they have a pass with perceived increase in value locally and regionally, so more days than the past are "free" = uptick. And the economy has been relatively good for many with the $$$ to make destination ski travel happen.

This season I suspect is going to fall into the category of many skiers seeing a new, and maybe limited window, to explore new places (Big Sky gathering location choice anyone?). When snow and income situations change, and Ikon becomes old hat, there could be a large crash in destination visitors--but like the Evil Empire in Vail, Ikon pass sales are going to be a major hedge against that time for the resorts.

I want to harp on the perceived value for the skier, because nobody I hear speaks of a Loveland season pass as a multi-resort pass. And yet you get 96 days at other mountains on three continents. If this was sold as a "Powder Alliance" pass I think many might feel the perceived value $$$ had increased there.

 

[cantunamunch]

Anyway, Snowbasin has become that alternate route during the traffic jam. Me no likey.

I live in one of the areas officially listed as "alternate" cherry blossom viewing areas by the Washington Post - for more than 10 years. Imagine how much I hate April - and the cars, and the dog doo, and having the curbs choked with parkers, and having the sidewalks choked with loud "appreciaters". Not to mention the soggy petal layer afterwards (slipperier than graupel!)

Your IKON is my WaPo. I ain't movin' tho, and I ain't voting to chop down nuthin'.

 

[Coach13]

In my personal case the passes just make it easier to justify multiple trips a year given lift tickets are a big part of trip cost. Instead of me paying $700 to ski Vail area resorts for a week, for a little more I can ski multiple other areas I like off the same pass for just the added transportation and lodging. Both of these costs can be deal shopped pretty easily and you have to eat even if you stay home so I never worry about those costs.

 

[Eleeski]

Interesting situation at Squaw. When the mountain is open, there's enough capacity that you can avoid serious lines. Parking and the roads in and out are the limiting factors and have been for decades. I'm not sure Icon affected any of this. Maybe helped as when you have a pass there's less incentive to stay to the bitter end so there's less of a surge leaving at 4.

Squaw has been a destination resort for a long time and is usually pretty saturated with tourists. The Ikon pass can't add any more capacity. Even a completed village expansion won't stress the hill's capacity too much. So no tourist surge with Ikon.

Bay Area weekenders might be more locked in if they get the Ikon. But I know several who are switching to Sugar Bowl or Rose passes and are priced out of Squaw. I haven't seen too much change in weekends - still saturated.

Locals only come out on great days. When it's great, the locals flood the mountain. Just as they have for decades. KT powder day lines are legendary - both on the hill and at the lift. Again, it's still saturated on powder days regardless of the pass situation.

Cheaper passes at Squaw started a decade ago. Their effect is now ancient history - as are the ticket window lines. Nobody complains about Ikon the way they did about the cheap passes. Others, like me, complain about the price increases of the Ikon where the other resorts don't really offer me a benefit (although this year, I paid off the difference with my outside visits). The pass still pays off pretty quickly so it's a reasonable value.

The Ikon really hasn't changed that much for us. Alterra is our lightning rod. Literally today as Squaw is on lightning hold right now.

Eric

 

[Started at 53]

Luckily for us, the traffic is not an issue getting to DV as we come from the “other” direction where the poor folks like us live. We don’t go through Park City. As for skier traffic on the mountain? Being I am a local, it is pretty easy to find good terrain without a lot of traffic as the Ikon tourists gravitate to the same areas and those areas are very easy to avoid if you know where to go.

#keepthesnowboardersout

 

[blackke17]

one look at Solitude's parking lot tells me all i need to know about the IKON effect!

 

[Started at 53]

one look at Solitude's parking lot tells me all i need to know about the IKON effect!

I’ll be down that way when DV closes to use my free DV season pass days at Brighton and Solitude. @blackke17 you better brace yourself for all of us snowboard haters

#keepthesnowboardersout

 

[givethepigeye]

Luckily for us, the traffic is not an issue getting to DV as we come from the “other” direction where the poor folks like us live. We don’t go through Park City. As for skier traffic on the mountain? Being I am a local, it is pretty easy to find good terrain without a lot of traffic as the Ikon tourists gravitate to the same areas and those areas are very easy to avoid if you know where to go.

#keepthesnowboardersout

Was at DV on Sunday. With Empire and Lady Morgan not spinning, it was pretty "saturated", unless you were on blacks or in the trees (Steins, Ontario Bowl, Sunset Glade, Triangle trees), not certain that a pass has anything to do with that. Groomed blues and greens were frightening. that said, being the 4th person down Keno after about 9-10" was worth every "head on a swivel" moment. But it got pounded pretty quickly as well.

 

[Started at 53]

Was at DV on Sunday. With Empire and Lady Morgan not spinning, it was pretty "saturated", unless you were on blacks or in the trees (Steins, Ontario Bowl, Sunset Glade, Triangle trees), not certain that a pass has anything to do with that. Groomed blues and greens were frightening. that said, being the 4 person down Keno after about 9-10" was worth every "head on a swivel" moment

We only ski weekdays, too many people on the weekends, we also went to a Location X between Christmas and New Years to ski always from crowds. That being said, I am out of town until Sunday working, but will be skiing Monday

 

[blackke17]

I’ll be down that way when DV closes to use my free DV season pass days at Brighton and Solitude. @blackke17 you better brace yourself for all of us snowboard haters

#keepthesnowboardersout

HAHA..............im with ya Man! - I've had an Alta pass the last 3 years - 7 days there just isnt enough

 

[dbostedo]

...to explore new places (Big Sky gathering location choice anyone?)...

To be more precise, the Big Sky location wasn't driven by Ikon directly. The Gathering has been there before a few years ago (2014 I think?). And last year it was decided that we'd set up a rotation among the favorite Gathering places from the past :

Alta-Bird, Big Sky, Jackson Hole, Aspen

Inclusion on some kind of multi-pass - MCP previously, or Ikon now - was seen as a plus, but it didn't make or break that list.

 

[LKLA]

Yes, skiing is declining because the resorts are too crowded.

The industry has had relatively flat growth for the last 10 years (see below). Same applies to 20 or 25 years. What has changed is where people ski. There has definitely been a change / shift. It has become a much more dynamic industry.

It really started shifting with more people going to Vail properties/partners and more recently to Alterra properties/partners. It also started changing as more visitors headed to mountains near the top 20 largest metro areas.

 

[onstar1]

someone should tell the locals it's either IKON or become part of the Vail family?

 

[Started at 53]

someone should tell the locals it's either IKON or become part of the Vail family?

What????

Ikon does nothing for us Utah locals. Why would I want to buy a pass that limits me to 5 or 7 days at my local mountain? Why would I want to travel when I can stay at home and drive 15 minutes to the gondola?

 

[Lorenzzo]

As a local I'm appreciative of the surplus we have and have had. Vacationers endure a lot more than us in pursuing skiing. We're almost always there when the goods are, it costs us less on a daily basis, we know how to get a lot out of the hills. It isn't about us. Our gig is made possible by vacationers.