Got new boots today Nordica Promachine 120

[Wasatchman]

According to the western Canada rep for Nordica the flex numbers are not consistent or necessarily comparable between models. A Nordica Speedmachine 120 might actually be stiffer than a Nordica Promachine 130. All that he could confirm is PM 130 is stiffer than a PM 120 and a SM 130 is stiffer than a SM 120. But PM 130 vs SM 130 are not necessarily the same flex. AFAIK the same thing applies to other manufacturers.

So it is bad enough when boot shopping to deal with flex numbers that are not accurately comparable between manufactures, it also turns out that you cannot accurately compare flex numbers of different model boots made by the same manufacturer.

Yup. Have a pair of Nordica To Hell and Back boots in a 120 flex I bought on special as they were a few seasons old that are too stiff for me. I think that model Nordica may have been real stiff. Lange stiffness can also vary by model (XT not as stiff as RS in a 120 or 130) but my experience is perhaps Nordica varies more by model in terms of stiffness than Lange.

 

[Vendome1888]

Thanks, NN. Looking the the Nordica World and USA websites, it seems that the GPs are still made, but just not brought into the USA.

 

[Chef23]

Just installed Booster straps in place of the stock strap. Skiing this weekend unless it is rained out so we will see if it helps.

 

[Ecimmortal]

Just installed Booster straps in place of the stock strap. Skiing this weekend unless it is rained out so we will see if it helps.

How did this work out for you? I want to try the standard strap before putting a booster on.

I'm either calling BS on this boot being "low volume" or my foot just loves Nordica. I tried on about 10 different boots today looking for something that I could actually drive a ski with instead of the Full Tilt. I tried on a Promachine 120 almost as a goof. I was blown away that it checked all the boxes in fit for me. It ended up being a dead heat between this and the Technica Mach 1. But the technica put more pressure on my 6th toe than the Nordica.

 

[ted]

How did this work out for you? I want to try the standard strap before putting a booster on.

I'm either calling BS on this boot being "low volume" or my foot just loves Nordica. I tried on about 10 different boots today looking for something that I could actually drive a ski with instead of the Full Tilt. I tried on a Promachine 120 almost as a goof. I was blown away that it checked all the boxes in fit for me. It ended up being a dead heat between this and the Technica Mach 1. But the technica put more pressure on my 6th toe than the Nordica.

This makes sense as Nordica is typically abducted in the forefoot while Tecnica is typically aligned straighter in the forefoot. Ie Nordica has more room on outside of forefoot and Tecnica haas more room on inside of forefoot.

I get more lateral foot pressure from a Tecnica MV than I do from the Pro machine. Nice to have variety!

I also feel Nordica really is dialed on anatomical fits with the machine series.

 

[Chef23]

How did this work out for you? I want to try the standard strap before putting a booster on.

I'm either calling BS on this boot being "low volume" or my foot just loves Nordica. I tried on about 10 different boots today looking for something that I could actually drive a ski with instead of the Full Tilt. I tried on a Promachine 120 almost as a goof. I was blown away that it checked all the boxes in fit for me. It ended up being a dead heat between this and the Technica Mach 1. But the technica put more pressure on my 6th toe than the Nordica.

Not certain how the shin issue is going to work out. I didn't have any issues this weekend but I didn't ski that hard. I was mostly skiing with my wife who is a cautious intermediate these days.

I agree on the fit of the PM 120. I am a solid D width foot with a decent instep and arch and while I had to shave my footbeds down I have enough room in the PM 120 and it felt at least as stiff as the Mach 1. I thought the Mach 1 MV was a little looser in the heel/ankle area and the Mach 1 LV was a little narrow.

I really like how the clog fits the foot espcialy around the ankle. I hope I can get the issue at the top of the boot squared away.

 

[moreoutdoorYuri]

Not certain how the shin issue is going to work out. I didn't have any issues this weekend but I didn't ski that hard. I was mostly skiing with my wife who is a cautious intermediate these days.... I hope I can get the issue at the top of the boot squared away.

I always have a 'space' issue in a boot upper because I have fairly thin lower legs and somewhat higher lay of the calf. Just buckling down on the upper doesn't work because I don;t need (or want) it tighter around the ankle. Tightening down on the strap help a little, but not enough. Still was issue on both the Fischers and Dobermanns.
What I came to, quite some years back, was to lay (glue) a 2-3 thick mm piece of neoprene onto the tongue - inside, which is firm enough to give some support, and takes up just the right amount of volume when the upper is buckled to my preferred tightness. The aftermarket tongue inserts I've seen are way tooo much (for me...)
When I first tried it, before more permanent gluing, I safety-pinned the neoprene to the tongue tops (fabric tongue) and positioned the neoprene before buckling down - skied for most of a morning without any movement from the neo - and liked the result!
I can usually go about 4-5 days on new boots before needing to add the tongue inserts... but then they make a real improvement after adding...
EDIT: are you skiing with that 'plastic' plate on the 'power strap' ? I really like the idea... it could go both ways, distribute pressure more or cause a hot spot... only way to tell is try it both with or without... I'm hoping to demo the PM120 soon, as a replacement for my Dobbies.

 

[Ecimmortal]

Guess I'll use this thread as an update.

I spent my first full day in these boots today. I had a bunion punch done proactively. I spent the week wearing these boots after gym sessions, and knew that this was going to be necessary pretty quickly.

This entire boot fits me so precise, but with no pressure. I did have to fiddle a bit with the buckles to dial in the hold, but that is to be expected. I really like the power strap on this. I have always pretty much just ripped out the stock strap in favor of boosters. But right now I don't see an immediate need for that.

The liner is plenty warm, and is pretty easy to get in to.

I was getting much better power transfer to the ski today resulting in better skiing, and less fatigue. My shins and the front of the boot are one with each other.

I can say I have never had a boot fit me this well, and I have not felt so precise in my skiing since I was mashing myself in the old Ghost 130.

 

[Chef23]

I always have a 'space' issue in a boot upper because I have fairly thin lower legs and somewhat higher lay of the calf. Just buckling down on the upper doesn't work because I don;t need (or want) it tighter around the ankle. Tightening down on the strap help a little, but not enough. Still was issue on both the Fischers and Dobermanns.
What I came to, quite some years back, was to lay (glue) a 2-3 thick mm piece of neoprene onto the tongue - inside, which is firm enough to give some support, and takes up just the right amount of volume when the upper is buckled to my preferred tightness. The aftermarket tongue inserts I've seen are way tooo much (for me...)
When I first tried it, before more permanent gluing, I safety-pinned the neoprene to the tongue tops (fabric tongue) and positioned the neoprene before buckling down - skied for most of a morning without any movement from the neo - and liked the result!
I can usually go about 4-5 days on new boots before needing to add the tongue inserts... but then they make a real improvement after adding...
EDIT: are you skiing with that 'plastic' plate on the 'power strap' ? I really like the idea... it could go both ways, distribute pressure more or cause a hot spot... only way to tell is try it both with or without... I'm hoping to demo the PM120 soon, as a replacement for my Dobbies.

I took the stock strap off and put a Booster strap on. I haven’t skied real hard in them since I did it though. Maybe next weekend.

 

[moreoutdoorYuri]

I took the stock strap off and put a Booster strap on. I haven’t skied real hard in them since I did it though. Maybe next weekend.

I tried the boosters on my 09 Dobbies, didn't do it for me, so I went back to the stock straps and adding the tongue spacers.
But there's so many variables when it comes to boot performance, not the least being the skis (and how they need to be skied) and the skier.
keep us updated...

 

[Lauren]

Helpful discussion! A new question: is the internal volume, especially in the rear-foot and instep, of the new Pro Machine 110/120 boots the same as in the earlier GP/GPX/Dobermann boots, or is there more volume, like in the Speed Machine boots?

Unfortunately there is more from our in shop testing
We were quite disappointed as the last was more genourous in the heel and forefoot than the GPX it replaced

Not sure how much difference there is between the women's and men's versions of both the GPX and the ProMachine. But for the women's models the ProMachine has a much narrower heel, but a slightly wider forefoot than it's GPX predecessor. I found the instep to be similar in the two boots (I have a pretty average instep, not flat, nor high). Background...I skied the GPX 105W for 3 seasons, switched to the Promachine 115W this year, and currently have 10 days or so on them.

 

[Chef23]

I tried the boosters on my 09 Dobbies, didn't do it for me, so I went back to the stock straps and adding the tongue spacers.
But there's so many variables when it comes to boot performance, not the least being the skis (and how they need to be skied) and the skier.
keep us updated...

I don't have small calves, there is no extra space in my boots and they seem to move with my leg. Regarding skis I have skied on 6-8 different pairs of skis ranging from 72 cm carvers to Monster 88s so I am not sure it is ski specific. I am going to try and ski this weekend and hopefully ski a bit harder (it depends on if my wife is with me I don't ski as hard when I am with her) and see how they are. I like how the boot performs and the way it fits my foot so I hope I can sort it out.

 

[Chef23]

Skied again today much harder than last time out. I don’t think I have fixed the problem. Skied from 8 to 1 and both shins were pretty sore by the time I quit particularly my left one. Paid attention and there is no space in the top of the boot when flexing back or forward. The problem area seems to be right at the top of the boot.

I am a little bummed by it as right now I love the way the boot fits (except for the shin bang) and skis. I have skied it in temps ranging from 0* to 35* and on a variety of skis and have had the same issue.

I have a 5 day trip coming up to Utah and I am not sure I will be able to ski 5 days. Last tome I skied 3 in a row I was raw enough that there was some blood by the end of the last day. That was before the booster strap.

I am out of town all week so I won’t be able to get back to the shop until next weekend.

 

[moreoutdoorYuri]

Hi Chef23 - just back from 3 days at Mammoth, and I do have some 'observations' regarding MY recent boot move - possible things to look at in your case? I don't know.
so, in this 3day 'session' I did make a move from my Dobbie 130 Pro EDTs to Dobbie 120 Spitfires ( will purchase from friend as opposed to buying new PM 120s...). This, mainly to get a easier flex (have already worked 130s enough to know I still wanted a bit easier flex) for better control in varied terrain/conditions.
I REALLY, really like the way the Dobbie 120s ski ! And they fit just like the Dobbie 130s !!!
but... I did experience 'shin soreness' all 3 days... But NOT sore like 'overwork/pressure', more like 'abrasion soreness'. I mulled this over and over in my head on my rides up in the Gondie - all day Sunday/yesterday...
So what was the difference between the 2 boots ??? had me stumped... especially with the slightly softer flex on the 120s

Long story short - The Dobbie 120's tongue (like the stock 130 Pro EDTs) have a 'faux' leather cover. For 9 years, my 2 pairs of 130 EDTS have had neoprene2 layered over the stock tongue. I compared... Definitely, the stock tongues 'grip' my ski socks (3 diff. ones used in the 3 days) more than the neo2 layer surface... add in whatever effect the long underwear add... And I think I have more 'abrasion' (reddness/soreness due to fabric sliding on the shin) in the Dobbie 120, without the neoprene2 layer...
maybe it's the long underwear??? the ones I used on this trip were different, and slightly heavier than last trip - much colder days...
Haven't really come to a method to 'test' this yet - but will figure something out on my next trip up (hopefully in the next 10 days...)
so, Chef23
... is there a chance the soreness you're feeling is due to some abrasion effect ??? just offering as something to consider ??? don't know...

...I will report back when I get to ski again and determine a 'test' method... I have both boots so, some direct comparison can be made... along with testing the effect of the varied sock and underwear fabric... a lot of variables, but maybe I can come to some reasonable methodology...

 

[Chef23]

@moreoutdoorYuri thanks for your thoughts. It isn't long underwear because I wear 3/4 and there is nothing in my socks. I have skied in multiple different pairs of socks that I have been using for several years and I got a new pair. I don't think it is friction but something to do with the top of the boot.

 

[Chef23]

I am still having shin issues with the new boots. I was just in at the shop I bought them from and the fitter recommended the Masterfit eliminator custom tongues. They don't have them in the shop and suggested I go buy them myself. I have a few issues with this:

• I just bought brand new boots (from that shop) and now I would be jury rigging them to eliminate shin pain and .
• I don't have a small calf, there isn't a gap in the boots and the boot definitely is not too stiff. I don't know if the tongue eliminators will work.
• I have no idea how this is going to impact the performance of the boot.
• I bought Booster straps on my own so I have an extra $40 into the boots if I have to pick up the tongues it is another $30 plus shipping. The shop claims a fit guarantee it seems like they are making a couple of suggestions and telling me to work on it myself.
• I am headed to Utah next weekend if I come back with bloody shins again am I out of line expecting them to take the boots back and get me into something else.

I have been skiing for 47 years and have never had this problem across probably 10 pairs of boots in my adult years. I worked in a shop for almost 20 years and we would have been a lot more aggressive about addressing the issue.

It is disappointing because the boot basically fits well and I like the way it skis except for the fact that by the end of the day my shins are in rough shape. If I come back with bloody shins I will be pressuring them to get me into something that doesn't shred my shins.

 

[laine]

Not sure how much difference there is between the women's and men's versions of both the GPX and the ProMachine. But for the women's models the ProMachine has a much narrower heel, but a slightly wider forefoot than it's GPX predecessor. I found the instep to be similar in the two boots (I have a pretty average instep, not flat, nor high). Background...I skied the GPX 105W for 3 seasons, switched to the Promachine 115W this year, and currently have 10 days or so on them.

@elemmac - I'm with you. Got the PM 115W in the fall and have skied them about 15 days this season. These boots were made for the shape of my foot exactly. They hug my heel and fit perfectly around my toes. My issue - which has been an issue in my last 2-3 pair of boots is numbness/coldness from the ball of my foot forward. I've tried various footbeds (made weighted, unweighted, Superfeet), and I finally made an appt with a podiatrist up in Truckee who will tell me if it's a circulation issue and/or recommend the right orthotic for my feet (narrow, but high arch). Excited to finally get to the bottom of this.

Other than the numbness/coldness - which I've kinda just lived with and ignored the best I could - these boots are fantastic. I feel like they are super responsive and precise.

 

[AmyPJ]

Reviving this thread as I'm joining the Promachine club with a 2020 Promachine 105W.

I have RIDICULOUSLY low volume feet. About 82mm wide, very low instep, pronate pretty severely. Tiny ankles that transition to slender but normal calves. My feet are just skinny and small for my height.

I've been in a Tecnica Mach 1 95 LV for two seasons now, with a mandatory Boot Doc custom liner because without it, I had a lot of room over my instep with the stock liner. Things I liked about the Mach 1: Definitely a LV boot, very responsive. Things I didn't like: Shorter cuff height (which I believe has been changed for 2020.) The tongue on the stock liner was brutal on my shins, too. Flex in the 105 of this boot felt LIGHTYEARS stiffer than the 95 (I actually picked up a pair of 105s cheap because I am ready to move up to a stiffer boot than the 95. Skied them one day, and they felt like they wanted to buck me off the hill.) Can't flex the 105 indoors, either. I also like the 270 BSL vs 265 for most 22.5 boots, because my big toes are pretty cramped in a 265.

I tried on several different brands (all 2020 shells) and the Promachine fit with the stock liner in a 22.5-265 BSL. Unreal. Heel hold with the cork liner feels snugger than anything I've skied in. What I'm seeing is different is the instep is lower than the Tecnica, but the width is a slight bit wider. The cuff is at LEAST 5mm taller. The flex in a 105 is smooth and I can actually flex it. I am wondering if there is something about the higher instep in the Tecnica and the small boot making the buckles somehow impede flex for me.

Anyway, I'm excited to get these babies canted up and ready to go in a couple weeks. I also applaud Nordica for for making this line of low volume boots in flexes as low as 85. Oh how I wish this boot had been available when I first started skiing.

 

[Noodler]

Reviving this thread as I'm joining the Promachine club with a 2020 Promachine 105W.

I have RIDICULOUSLY low volume feet. About 82mm wide, very low instep, pronate pretty severely. Tiny ankles that transition to slender but normal calves. My feet are just skinny and small for my height.

I've been in a Tecnica Mach 1 95 LV for two seasons now, with a mandatory Boot Doc custom liner because without it, I had a lot of room over my instep with the stock liner. Things I liked about the Mach 1: Definitely a LV boot, very responsive. Things I didn't like: Shorter cuff height (which I believe has been changed for 2020.) The tongue on the stock liner was brutal on my shins, too. Flex in the 105 of this boot felt LIGHTYEARS stiffer than the 95 (I actually picked up a pair of 105s cheap because I am ready to move up to a stiffer boot than the 95. Skied them one day, and they felt like they wanted to buck me off the hill.) Can't flex the 105 indoors, either. I also like the 270 BSL vs 265 for most 22.5 boots, because my big toes are pretty cramped in a 265.

I tried on several different brands (all 2020 shells) and the Promachine fit with the stock liner in a 22.5-265 BSL. Unreal. Heel hold with the cork liner feels snugger than anything I've skied in. What I'm seeing is different is the instep is lower than the Tecnica, but the width is a slight bit wider. The cuff is at LEAST 5mm taller. The flex in a 105 is smooth and I can actually flex it. I am wondering if there is something about the higher instep in the Tecnica and the small boot making the buckles somehow impede flex for me.

Anyway, I'm excited to get these babies canted up and ready to go in a couple weeks. I also applaud Nordica for for making this line of low volume boots in flexes as low as 85. Oh how I wish this boot had been available when I first started skiing.

Congrats. I have to admit that Nordica builds a great boot. Their attention to the details it what really sets them apart for me. Things like screwing the bootboard down into the sole to stabilize it, the power strap/driver that uses a clip in conjunction with the ratchet buckle, probably one of the best, if not the best, OEM cork liners in the business, cuff alignment that has great range and flexibility (lateral and rotational), etc.

I'm really impressed with my GPX 130 and can't wait to get it on snow. I've been a Head Raptor guy for over 10 years, but I may be a convert. I'm looking for the GP 140 now...

 

[DanoT]

I tried on several different brands (all 2020 shells) and the Promachine fit with the stock liner in a 22.5-265 BSL. Unreal. Heel hold with the cork liner feels snugger than anything I've skied in.

Are you going with the stock liner or the Boot Doc custom liner from your old boots? Will the Boot Doc liners even fit in the new boots?