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Philpug

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Do you find the penetrating nature of the infra red is helpful in getting the punch to keep it's shape and not return a little or is that more related to the plastic formulation used?
Yeah, so far, so good.
 
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Chef23

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I have three days in on the boots now 1 half day at home and two days from 9 AM to 4 PM at Park City (I am about to suit up for a third partial day before I head home tonight). So far I love the boot. We have been skiing everything from cruising groomers, some bumps and steep partially tracked stuff and the boot has been good in all those conditions. Maybe not the best bump boot (I probably haven't been on the best bump ski either) but it has worked well there and has been great everywhere else. Boot is very responsive and even at 120 plenty stiff for me. It is pretty warm this week in the low to mid 30s and I never felt like I was crushing through the boot like I did in my old boots. I certainly never felt I wish this boot was stiffer. I am sure it doesn't compare to a plug boot (I have never skied in one) but for me I think it is going to be all the boot I need.

From a fit perspective I need a couple of small tweaks but nothing that has prevented me from skiing all day in them. I need to have a little volume taken out of my footbeds. I have a fairly high instep and have a bit of a hotspot on top of both feet. I have plenty of meat still in my footbeds so that won't be a problem. I have a D+ width foot but I don't think I am going to need to have the boots stretched at all. I have a bit of a tender spot on the shins. This could be just toughening up as I have jumped in to some long days of skiing after not being in boots for a long time. I am going to pay attention to exactly where that is today and see if it is a cuff alignment issue or just a little sensitivity.

So far I recommend these boots highly. It is a close fitting responsive boot that works well all over the hill. The boot does have a little more room than I expected a 98 last boot to have but a nice tight heel pocket.

My only issue is that my feet still get cold but that is a circulation issue with my feet. After a long illness including almost 3 months in bed I have circulation issues in my feet that I think is going to need to be addressed by boot heaters or heated socks. I am a little concerned about getting the socks in the boots. As a sort term solution I do think I might be able to get the toe heater packs on top of my toes. I don't have a lot of extra length or width but there is a bit of room above my toes.
 

Philpug

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I need to have a little volume taken out of my footbeds.
This is one thing that gets missed when some changes boots because they are usually going to a lower volume and/or a smaller shell.
 

James

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The Pro Machine 130 appears to nearly be sold out in a 28.
 

DanoT

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When I was looking at boot I tried on the SM 130 and the PM 120. I found the PM 120 to feel stiffer in the shop. Granted it was in the shop at 68* however given that both boots are from the same manufacturer I would expect that will translate to the hill.

According to the western Canada rep for Nordica the flex numbers are not consistent or necessarily comparable between models. A Nordica Speedmachine 120 might actually be stiffer than a Nordica Promachine 130. All that he could confirm is PM 130 is stiffer than a PM 120 and a SM 130 is stiffer than a SM 120. But PM 130 vs SM 130 are not necessarily the same flex. AFAIK the same thing applies to other manufacturers.

So it is bad enough when boot shopping to deal with flex numbers that are not accurately comparable between manufactures, it also turns out that you cannot accurately compare flex numbers of different model boots made by the same manufacturer.:nono:
 

James

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Just looking at someone trying on the speed machine, pro machine in the shop, they are very different boots. It's not just the width, the upper cuff area is quite different.

So it is bad enough when boot shopping to deal with flex numbers that are not accurately comparable between manufactures, it also turns out that you cannot accurately compare flex numbers of different model boots made by the same manufacturer.:nono:
Yeah, but I'm not sure that matters all that much. You know within the model the stiffest to the softest. So that's really all you need. Different models have different uses for different bodies.

To accurately indicate flex they'd have to test the boot. That would increase the cost. I know of someone who years ago worked on a project to do just that. But, the huge problem they found that to the end user one boot that felt stiff felt soft to someone else, so the results weren't that useful.

Far more useful would be to publish the angles and volume involved in boots. No testing needed. What's the ramp angle, forward lean, rail angle (toe out/stance), volume at instep, calf, cuff height etc. These are all numbers they know but which refuse to publish. There's no need for some expensive flex testing program that essentially adds nearly nothing to getting a boot that works.
 
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Chef23

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This is one thing that gets missed when some changes boots because they are usually going to a lower volume and/or a smaller shell.

We took some of the volume out of the footbeds already but as it is pretty much impossible to add it back we decided to take it slow.
 
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Chef23

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Keeping the update going by the end of the third day I have some serious shin bang. To the point that I am not sure I could ski a fourth day. It has me a little concerned. I need to go back to the shop to have my footbeds ground down a little. Shin bang isn't an issue I have had since Lange boots in the 80s so it isn't like I have a regular problem with it. I like the way the boot skis and fits my foot and hope I can figure out the shin issue. I didn't feel it in the shop but it was a little tender at the end of the second day and bad by the end of the third day. I didn't ski much bumps either which I am sure would have made it worse.
 

KingGrump

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Keeping the update going by the end of the third day I have some serious shin bang. To the point that I am not sure I could ski a fourth day. It has me a little concerned.

try a booster strap fastened across the liner tongue under the shell. That usually will take care of the shin bang issues.
 
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Chef23

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try a booster strap fastened across the liner tongue under the shell. That usually will take care of the shin bang issues.

Would that replace the existing booster strap? Does it fasten to the liner? Or do you just wrap it around the liner?
 

KingGrump

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Would that replace the existing booster strap? Does it fasten to the liner? Or do you just wrap it around the liner?

Usually, it replaces and uses the existing mounting hole of the existing velcro power strap. That means it is mounted to the rear of the shell and then wrapped around the front of the liner and tongue under the shell cuff.

https://boosterstrap.com/instructions/
 

James

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You need to take up the dpace somehow. There's angled foam wedges that can go behind the liner or you can do something in front. It will increase forward lean if in back and decrease if in front.
 
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Chef23

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You need to take up the dpace somehow. There's angled foam wedges that can go behind the liner or you can do something in front. It will increase forward lean if in back and decrease if in front.

There is no deadspace. The boot is wrapped tightly around my leg.
 

James

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Does the bang happen right at the top of the plastic cuff or lower down?
 

Andy Mink

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Chef23

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The ProMachines come with a pretty large piece of plastic attached to the booster strap. I am thinking that might contribute to the problem. I am going to take that off next time I ski and see if it helps. I also looked at the Booster Strap and for less than $50 may try it. I noticed one of the women on running GS had one on her boots today you could clearly see the logo.
 

Vendome1888

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Helpful discussion! A new question: is the internal volume, especially in the rear-foot and instep, of the new Pro Machine 110/120 boots the same as in the earlier GP/GPX/Dobermann boots, or is there more volume, like in the Speed Machine boots?
 

Near Nyquist

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Helpful discussion! A new question: is the internal volume, especially in the rear-foot and instep, of the new Pro Machine 110/120 boots the same as in the earlier GP/GPX/Dobermann boots, or is there more volume, like in the Speed Machine boots?
Unfortunately there is more from our in shop testing
We were quite disappointed as the last was more genourous in the heel and forefoot than the GPX it replaced
 

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