What is going on with these Kendo's?

[François Pugh]

Two things to try technique wise when chatter occurs:1) ease up or appliy less driving of the ski so the skis don't bight so hard, and 2) go full tilt (pun intended) and commit to edging the ski past the chatter limit.

 

[cantunamunch]

"Steer into the skid. Press into the chatter"?

 

[François Pugh]

"Steer into the skid. Press into the chatter"?

or both at the same time.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Again, this is new. He did not have this problem with these skis last season. That's why it is so puzzling.

 

[François Pugh]

Yes, it's new, but there are still different way to deal with the new problem: change ski to previous ski state, or adapt technique to the new ski state.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Yes, it's new, but there are still different way to deal with the new problem: change ski to previous ski state, or adapt technique to the new ski state.

Unless the problem is a bad state of ski, then it needs to be fixed. The problem is that there is no obvious problem. The shop checked it out and said they put it to factory specs. Sigh. It's all very frustrating.

 

[neonorchid]

Unless the problem is a bad state of ski, then it needs to be fixed. The problem is that there is no obvious problem. The shop checked it out and said they put it to factory specs. Sigh. It's all very frustrating.

I may have missed this one but is it possible snow conditions the handfull of times Bob skied them last year were soft-snow masking the issue?

Take this FWIW, was already discussed here at the time. I'm 5'6.5" ~140lbs, When I demoed Kendo on styrofoam man made snow, both groomed and un-groomed bumps, in 170cm it chattered like you describe (shaky leg Elvis thing), like crazy, unskiable, switched to the 177cm and hardly any of that. I didn't take the time to compare tunes on both skis so don't know if that was the problem.

Edit:

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Actually it's the opposite. While turning on steeps and with momentum, it's less problematic. The biggest issue is when he is coming to a stop on a run out - then the ski really gets jumping up and down.

That is not the traditional way I think of chatter. But a Hanging burr will make it extremely difficult to sideslip the ski, which in essence what your doing in a hockey type stop on a runout.

I don't recall stopping being a problem for me with the "side slip chattery" Kendo I had demod or any other time I encountered it.

 

[neonorchid]

Two things to try technique wise when chatter occurs:1) ease up or appliy less driving of the ski so the skis don't bight so hard, and 2) go full tilt (pun intended) and commit to edging the ski past the chatter limit.

"Steer into the skid. Press into the chatter"?

For me, stepping on the tails and pushing thru the chattery turn on the tails abate or eliminate the side skip chatter issue when it occurs. Nor sure if that is what you mean by "press into the chatter", your other method sounds potentially treacherous.

@François Pugh, Next time I encounter it I'll try higher edge angles and see what happens.

 

[Andy Mink]

new boots with more canting than the previous pair.

When you say more canting, do you mean more forward lean or did he get work done on the sole to better align laterally? Did he have the cuff aligned? And the one none of us want to speak of...is he heavier (or lighter) or maybe not quite as strong as last year? So many possibilities if the tune is good.

 

[cantunamunch]

For me, stepping on the tails and pushing thru the chattery turn on the tails abate or eliminate the side skip chatter issue when it occurs. Nor sure if that is what you mean by "press into the chatter", your other method sounds potentially treacherous..

Car analogy joke, was never meant to be taken seriously.

 

[Atomicman]

Thanks for the explanation.
I do understand that the side edge is not the issue, and base bevel is the possible question here, but the over tune or under tune is where you and I were thinking same but different.
Perhaps my dyslexia has affected my brain.

Yep, I knew that. too much base bevel would be over-tuned, not enough base bevel would be under-tuned. I doubt this is related to dyslexia.

 

[Atomicman]

Car analogy joke, was never meant to be taken seriously.

For me, stepping on the tails and pushing thru the chattery turn on the tails abate or eliminate the side skip chatter issue when it occurs. Nor sure if that is what you mean by "press into the chatter", your other method sounds potentially treacherous.

Trying to ski on your tails on a slope steep enough and hard enough to create chatter sounds even more frightening!

No , it is not what CTM meant.

If you think on a slope steep enough to create chatter, you are going to ski on your tails ...Good luck with that. It is actually just the opposite. You must ALLOW the tips to hook up before applying pressure to the ski. Most folks try to push their edges straight down into the snow in the direction of travel. This will most certainly create chatter. you must push the tips away from the direction of travel and allow the tips to hook up PRIOR to pressuring the ski. So if making a left turn (predominately right footed) You want your tips first to point to the right not the left the opposite direction you are trying to turn!

 

[cantunamunch]

If you think on a slope steep enough to create chatter, you are going to ski on your tails ...Good luck with that. It is actually just the opposite. You must ALLOW the tips to hook up before applying pressure to the ski. Most folks try to push their edges straight down into the snow in the direction of travel. This will most certainly create chatter. you must push the tips away from the direction of travel and allow the tips to hook up PRIOR to pressuring the ski. So if making a left turn (predominately right footed) You want your tips first to point to the right not the left the opposite direction you are trying to turn!

Excellent point, well made. I pulled it out so people could read it in the entirety without clicking through the quote box.

 

[Wilhelmson]

When I got my new skis on ice I was like wtf is that tail chatter, it was actually vibrating my feet. I was skiing the factory tune and there were file marks on the tips and tails in addition to burrs. Cleaned those up and got a feel for the skis - no more chatter.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Gummy stone to the rescue. They skied fine today. Thanks for all your advice, everybody.

When you say more canting, do you mean more forward lean or did he get work done on the sole to better align laterally? Did he have the cuff aligned? And the one none of us want to speak of...is he heavier (or lighter) or maybe not quite as strong as last year? So many possibilities if the tune is good.

Lateral canting on the right foot. His weight’s the same. As for his strength- I like being married so I will not even ask!

 

[Atomicman]

Gummy stone to the rescue. They skied fine today. Thanks for all your advice, everybody.


Lateral canting on the right foot. His weight’s the same. As for his strength- I like being married so I will not even ask!

So tell us what you did with the gummi

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

So tell us what you did with the gummi

I didn't do it. As he described it ... he felt along the edge of one of the skis and it felt like there was a long "folded over" piece of metal? He just ran the gummi the full length of the edges until it felt smoothed out. This may be a terrible description though. I love my guy, but words aren't his thing.

 

[Andy Mink]

I didn't do it. As he described it ... he felt along the edge of one of the skis and it felt like there was a long "folded over" piece of metal? He just ran the gummi the full length of the edges until it felt smoothed out. This may be a terrible description though. I love my guy, but words aren't his thing.

That's a perfect description of a burr caused by sharpening.

 

[neonorchid]

Excellent point, well made. I pulled it out so people could read it in the entirety without clicking through the quote box.

It is one way I pull them out of the chatter and has always worked for me but it is not the way I like to ski, i.e. I like skis that behave and don't put me in that situation.
Not sure if I'm getting the correct visual on your description or vice-versa but form other post here I suspect at least in part, what you are saying is why I do better on longer skis, IME, the way I ski, they hook up better for me. I'm from the era of long skinny straight skis which required pressuring the tips and bending the ski to turn, the shaped skis, eh, whatever, I hate when they have a mind of their own, some are a lot better then others.

 

[Jacques]

No, because half of it is invisible (folded over) and the visible parts are only visible as fuzzy glints if you're shining a spotlight onto the edge at just the right angle against a black background. And anyone who needs reading glasses won't see them even then, not even if they have the glasses on.

This is one of those problems where the fix IS the diagnosis.

PS, I still think hubby might be inconsistent in applying tip pressure - but

Un-removed burring from filing and stoning side edge.

Hanger from impact