What is going on with these Kendo's?

Discussion in 'Tuning Techniques and Tool Information' started by Pat AKA mustski, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Pat AKA mustski

    Pat AKA mustski Out on the slopes Skier

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    Hubby bought some Kendos last year and skied them a handful of times last season with no problems. Normally he skis his Elans. We took all our skis in and had the edges sharpened and the skis hot waxed. No base work was needed on any of the skis - so none was done.

    Normally, Bob can stop on a dime- but not on the newly tuned Kendos. They chatter like crazy and he has to release the edge and slide aways to bleed speed before stopping. They are chattery also on the morning hard corduroy but fine in the softer afternoon crud. We have been skiing SoCal so there is no ice. This isn't tip flap - the whole ski edge jumps up and down on the snow when he edges hard.

    I want to take them back to the shop. He thinks he just needs to adjust to them. I've skied with him for 25+years. He has a funky ski style because he's self taught, but he has always stopped and turned on a dime. Right now, I'm afraid when he stops above me instead of below me.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Jacques

    Jacques Workin' It on Skis Best I Can Skier

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    IDK, but I'd venture to say the edge bevels were changed.
    Did they do anything to the base edges?
     
  3. KingGrump

    KingGrump Most Interesting Man In The World Team Gathermeister

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    Check the edges for burr and/or other irregularities.
     
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  4. surfsnowgirl

    surfsnowgirl loves soft bumps, trees and ungroomed Skier

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    My slalom skis had burrs and uneven edges. 2 days in the hospital and my tech made em as good as new. Prior to that I thought it was me. I'd bring them into a trusted shop as it might just be a bad tune.
     
  5. Thread Starter
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    Pat AKA mustski

    Pat AKA mustski Out on the slopes Skier

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    Could the edges have been messed up during sharpening? I would think that would eliminate burrs.
     


  6. surfsnowgirl

    surfsnowgirl loves soft bumps, trees and ungroomed Skier

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    I say yes. I paid $60 for a performance tune and they messed up my edges. Did a great job waxing but with the edges the way they were "finished" skis were pretty much unskiable
     
  7. KingGrump

    KingGrump Most Interesting Man In The World Team Gathermeister

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    There are burrs that result from rock strike and such. Those are usually removed during the sharpening process.
    The sharpening process can also generate "hanging burrs." Usually results after sharpening of the side edge. Whether with a file or other powered methods. Application of a fine ceramic stone and gummi should take care of that.
     
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  8. James

    James Skiing the powder Instructor

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    Sharpening things in general always creates burrs. But the process of sharpening something includes removing the burr. If one is sharpening kitchen knives on whetstones you're constantly dealing with burrs. Near the end one even runs the knife through soft wood or hard felt to remove the wire edge,burr, that is present.

    Hanging burrs that affect skiing face down towards the base. Below is a drawing by Terry at Slidewright.com The grey is the edge, the tan would be where the snow is.

    IMG_5773.JPG

    IMG_5772.JPG

    https://www.slidewright.com/hanging-burr/

    Removing the burr:
    Don't worry about matching the base edge angle above. You could just hold the stone flat to the base and overlapping the side edge. Easier to do it long edge of stone aligned with length of ski. One could use a 400-600 diamond or other stone, or a ceramic, even a 200 if that's all one has.

    But, this may not be the prob or may be part of the prob. Soft snow hides many sins.
     
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  9. Thread Starter
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    Pat AKA mustski

    Pat AKA mustski Out on the slopes Skier

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    Thanks everyone. We have a gummy stone so will try that and if it’s not enough, we’ll go back in to the shop. It’s a shop I trust and used years, but stuff happens.
     
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    Pat AKA mustski

    Pat AKA mustski Out on the slopes Skier

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    We took them to the shop since we were going there anyway. They checked bevels, bases, edges and everything looked good. They suggested it might be related to a switch to new boots with more canting than the previous pair. Hmmm. We’re going to detune them a bit and see what happens.
     
  11. Seldomski

    Seldomski Paralysis by analysis Skier

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    Hmm, well I apparently skied on a pair of kendos for about 8 days last season where the toe piece was not set correctly I couldn't figure out why the ski was not as good as I remember when I demoed.

    I found out that there was a gap between the bottom of the toe and the binding of approx 1/4". This caused me all sorts of issues with carving or when the edges were sharp. Now that it's been fixed, carving, etc are possible again. Having a bad boot/ski connection was making use of edges on hardpack ... terrible.

    Stick the boot on the binding and see if there is a significant gap between the boot and the binding. A small gap (thickness of business card) I have been told is OK.
     
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  12. oldfashoned

    oldfashoned Getting off the lift Skier

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    Self thought, Kendo, chatter: sounds like your talking about me! My old school Kendos chattered at higher edge angles on steeper groomers like crazy. Exactly how you described. Could never figure it out. Thought it was me. Tried adjusting my skiing. How did I fix it? It went away when I bought a Kastle. The next season I took the Kendo out for a run. 1 run and back in the car it went. Haven’t looked back since. Still not blaming the ski, I just couldn’t figure it out. Held an edge good though.
    Skis are in excellent shape sitting in my office.....
     
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  13. Thread Starter
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    Pat AKA mustski

    Pat AKA mustski Out on the slopes Skier

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    Yup. First thing I said was "sell them and buy something you like. Life's to short to not enjoy skiing!" But, he's a stubborn man and determined to conquer the Kendos. He's still hoping to figure it out. What's strange is he skied them last season with no issues. That's the head scratcher. @Seldomski - he plans to check the boot/binding connection tomorrow.
     
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  14. oldfashoned

    oldfashoned Getting off the lift Skier

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    My issues were inconsistent, some runs fine, some not. But there was always this apprehension it would start at any moment, and that didn’t help my skiing. When I went to a more refined ski I then felt I started to really progress in ability.
     
  15. Atomicman

    Atomicman Getting off the lift Skier

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    It is a hanging burr as explained above. No doubt in my mind. Exact symptoms of a hanging burr. It is only a problem caused by sharpening the side edge.The burr created when sharpening the base edge is not problematic because the burr sticks out to the side and when the ski rolls up on edge it breaks off. unlike the burr created when sharpening the side edge which goes straight down into the snow It is is extremely easy to fix. But do not use a gummi stone. Gummis even the blue hard are too soft to fix this and they tend to dull your edge point because of their soft nature they hang over the edge point. Use a surgical, ceramic or true hardstone. Put ski in a vice , side edge up, base away from you. Place stone flat against metal BASE EDGE with about 1/3 of the stone above the side edge Match the stone to the metal edge angle and make a couple of passes with the stone on the base edge for entire length of ski. Do this to all 4 base edges.
     
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  16. Atomicman

    Atomicman Getting off the lift Skier

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    Not the problem...see my post
     
  17. RuleMiHa

    RuleMiHa Out on the slopes Skier

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    This makes sense but wouldn't the shop see a burr when they re-inspected and checked the edges. I can understand it being missed the first time through but if someone brought them in for a problem wouldn't they see it?
     
  18. Tricia

    Tricia The Velvet Hammer Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    I experienced this a long time ago, and I have skied with Bob so I'm speaking from some experience.
    They have been "over tuned".
    De-Tune them with a gummy stone. If that doesn't work, then take them back to the shop that tuned them, and tell them your issues, have them base ground to flat and have them tuned to a 1/2.
     
  19. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    Switching boot stance could have a tremendous effect. More upright..less upright? Double check the canting, if he needed 1* on the inside and they put the 1* on the outside, there is a 2* difference with there.
     
  20. KingGrump

    KingGrump Most Interesting Man In The World Team Gathermeister

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    If he didn't have issues with the Kendo last season. Then something or somethings changed to cause the issues.
    The list is pretty short.
    Hanging burr - easy fix with a surgical stone and a piece of blue gummi.
    Technique - Slow down the skiing, concentrate rounding out the turns and see if the same skidding happens.
    Over tune - Fix the technique and the over tune issue will disappear. I run my Kendo at 1/3.
    Boot - That's a big one. Have the boot fitter take a good look at the set up. My on slope check is when I am in a tuck on a long and empty green trail, my skis should be pretty flat and floating slightly (loose).


    That's my experience with the Kendo since Volkl introduced them back in 2011.
    I have said this on both this forum before. If I have a dollar every time someone came back and yelled at me for a Kendo demo. I would have a pretty decent lunch at Chipotle or Olive Garden. :eek:
    (Full disclosure: I have never been to a Chiptole. Been to a Olive Garden once.) :cool: :D
    I even had a guy who came back the following season and yelled at me because he bought a pair of Kendo without demo during the summer. He bought the Kendo not based on my recommendation but because he saw how much fun I was having on the ski. :doh: Sold it after one day. :huh:

    Have to agree the Kastle MX skis are better skis on anything that has a groomed firm deck underneath. Like 6" fresh on a groomer. For areas that has never seen a groomer, the Kendo is a much more versatile ski. YMMV.

    Another full disclosure: I am on my 5th pair of Kendo since 2011. Had/have several pairs of Kastle also.
     

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