It would be preferable to let the ski-snow interaction cause the skis to turn, and turn they must - no pushing the ski out to make a stem christie. Allowing the snow to turn the skis is harder to do if the tips and tails are off the snow.
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Wedge Christie feedback
Well, there's more rotation of the ski, but you still are pushing the skis away from you and you are initiating rotation with your upper body, rather than by turning the legs. Use that wide stance, but don't let the stance width widen. You don't need a wide wedge to turn if you are truly steering the skis under your upper body. You are flattening the ski by inclining the whole body rather than tipping the ankle and lower leg.
There's a reason that the wedge christie is on the exam -- it highlights issues in your skiing.
Mike
There's a reason that the wedge christie is on the exam -- it highlights issues in your skiing.
Mike
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They are still Stem Christies....
and tell the camera person to stop holding the phone like a phone while videoing.
and tell the camera person to stop holding the phone like a phone while videoing.
Slow it down. By "it" I mean the rotation of the skis.
Would anyone mind doing an MA comparison of Take 3 and the video from the Alpine Tech Manual?
Take 3, again,
Video from Alpine Tech Manual
I failed both MA&T module in the Teaching Exam, and the Skiing at Skill Level module in Skiing Exam, on account of the WC. When comparing, one thing I noticed is that the model in the Tech Manual is extending both legs at turn initiation, kind of like the old-fashion unweighting with straight skis. As for the outside ski turn, I do not perceive a difference. Both are on edge and both turns are carved with some smearing. Edit: I think the model's feet are not separating and coming together as much as mine.
@Josh Matta, what is the visual cue(s) you are using to conclude that I am doing a Stem Christie? I think I perceive that my femur is moving away from the upper body at turn initiation; I think Tech Manual's model's femur is not, though I am not sure of that on account of the frontal perspective. What are all the things you are seeing?
BTW, which turn, or which of my turns, come closest?
Take 3, again,
Video from Alpine Tech Manual
I failed both MA&T module in the Teaching Exam, and the Skiing at Skill Level module in Skiing Exam, on account of the WC. When comparing, one thing I noticed is that the model in the Tech Manual is extending both legs at turn initiation, kind of like the old-fashion unweighting with straight skis. As for the outside ski turn, I do not perceive a difference. Both are on edge and both turns are carved with some smearing. Edit: I think the model's feet are not separating and coming together as much as mine.
@Josh Matta, what is the visual cue(s) you are using to conclude that I am doing a Stem Christie? I think I perceive that my femur is moving away from the upper body at turn initiation; I think Tech Manual's model's femur is not, though I am not sure of that on account of the frontal perspective. What are all the things you are seeing?
BTW, which turn, or which of my turns, come closest?
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Well the national team member is apparently unable to demo this either.....Simpson's are stemming as well. I do not even think about edging in a wedge christie...
I am just looking at the snow, the ski shouldnt move out wards but should just steer downwards, none of the demos you posted, nor The alpine demo being shown actually shows the correct movements. The best I can find is this...
I am just looking at the snow, the ski shouldnt move out wards but should just steer downwards, none of the demos you posted, nor The alpine demo being shown actually shows the correct movements. The best I can find is this...
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The problem is the closing of the stance when you match. Just try to do the whole thing with your feet staying the same distance apart the whole time.
Yeah, I think I noticed that in the Tech Manual video and just added that into my previous post as an Edit. Do you agree, the model in the Tech Manual is not separating her feet, then bringing them back together?
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The angle in the PSIA video is hard to say, it does look like her feet stay the same width.
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If she skied past the camera it would be easier to tell, but I think she does just fine. I think the stance width remains the same. I'm sure she'd pass L2.
For the benefit of readers, the wedge Christie in this video is at 6:02. I perceive separation and closure of feet in this demonstration. But, like the Tech Manual, I perceive some angulation to pressure the outside ski. Not sure I am right.
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pressure will happen as an outcome.....
That is part of what you are getting wrong, you can not press on the outside ski, in your videos your pressing down and out with the outside ski.
That is part of what you are getting wrong, you can not press on the outside ski, in your videos your pressing down and out with the outside ski.
Sorry. Outcome of what?
Transition; feet are a little apart and skis are parallel.... That's all good.
...and here you're doing what you need to NOT do. You are moving your new outside foot waaaay out there, and brushing that ski's tail out to form the wedge. You are also doing this quickly. It's called a stem, and it's forbidden in the wedge christie. Do not move that new outside foot out and away, and do not turn that foot to brush the tail out to make a wedge; do not press hard on that outside ski by lengthening that leg.
Here's another transition. Looks pretty much the same as the first; you are fine in transition....
And here you are rotating your upper body, shoulders first, to point in the direction of your upcoming turn.
This is upper body rotation. It's another no-no. You are just beginning here to widen your stance as you
start to push that new outside foot out away from you, and as you start to brush its tail into a wedge.
Image below: You are now leaning in. You are also bracing (when your outside shoulder down to your outside foot lines up along a straight line), I presume to "pressure" that outside ski. So your wedge christie has a whole list of no-no's embedded in it:
upper body rotation
leaning in
bracing
a stem entry (stem christie)
varying stance width
These moves all work in some situations, and are all very common in intermediate skiers' parallel or nearly parallel turns. As an instructor you need to be aware of them and how they hinder a skier's progress. These movements might not be embedded in your personal skiing, but they are appearing in your wedge christies. But getting that wedge started for the wedge christie invites you, and any instructor seeking higher certification, to do them. You gotta get to a wedge from parallel somehow, right?
I wish we had a behind-the-skier-view of a passing wedge christie so I could show you how to get that wedge without pushing that foot out and brushing that tail away.
Here's a verbal description of what you need to do and not do:
1. Do not turn your upper body to look in the direction of the new turn in transition. Instead, work to keep your upper body facing sorta downhill the whole run, so that as your skis point left then right, your hips and shoulders will not be turning as much as your legs.
2. Keep your upper body upright, from the hips up; avoid leaning in.
3. Do not allow your outside shoulder-to-outside foot to line up along a straight line (bracing); do not press outward or downward on that outside ski to "pressure" it.
4. Do not do ANYTHING to the new outside ski or the new outside leg to make the wedge start. Erase that ski and that leg from your consciousness.
5. The critical and most difficult part is getting from parallel to wedge without brushing out that new outside tail. To make this seemingly impossible thing happen, you release your new inside ski by flattening it, you delay its turning, and the new outside ski should tip passively onto its new edge and start turning ahead of the inside ski. This is a subtle movement. It helps to have another instructor watching to let you know when you have it.
6. To make the examiners happy, try HARD to keep your wedge stance width the same as when you had parallel skis. This doesn't allow much of a wedge. Examiners will be watching for stance width variations. Keep your stance width stable. Remember, the wedge doesn't need to be wide. It should happen slowly, on its own, and feel "natural."
7. Once the tiny wedge happens and the turn starts, finish it as you do a regular wedge turn. Keep your upper body facing somewhat downhill and upright as the skis turn across the hill.
8. Bring the inside ski in to match the outside ski S-L-O-W-L-Y after the fall line. Your video shows you sliding it into parallel matching quickly. This shouldn't fail you, but it will lose you points (I think). Practice this slowness with diligence. Examiners want to see everything happening nice and smoothly.
By the way, I think this is all pretty pointless since we don't teach students to do a perfect wedge christie. But learning to do a wedge-christy by the book does show the examiners that you are willing to go through weeping and gnashing of teeth for their approval. They will reward you if you can do it.
...and here you're doing what you need to NOT do. You are moving your new outside foot waaaay out there, and brushing that ski's tail out to form the wedge. You are also doing this quickly. It's called a stem, and it's forbidden in the wedge christie. Do not move that new outside foot out and away, and do not turn that foot to brush the tail out to make a wedge; do not press hard on that outside ski by lengthening that leg.
Here's another transition. Looks pretty much the same as the first; you are fine in transition....
And here you are rotating your upper body, shoulders first, to point in the direction of your upcoming turn.
This is upper body rotation. It's another no-no. You are just beginning here to widen your stance as you
start to push that new outside foot out away from you, and as you start to brush its tail into a wedge.
Image below: You are now leaning in. You are also bracing (when your outside shoulder down to your outside foot lines up along a straight line), I presume to "pressure" that outside ski. So your wedge christie has a whole list of no-no's embedded in it:
upper body rotation
leaning in
bracing
a stem entry (stem christie)
varying stance width
These moves all work in some situations, and are all very common in intermediate skiers' parallel or nearly parallel turns. As an instructor you need to be aware of them and how they hinder a skier's progress. These movements might not be embedded in your personal skiing, but they are appearing in your wedge christies. But getting that wedge started for the wedge christie invites you, and any instructor seeking higher certification, to do them. You gotta get to a wedge from parallel somehow, right?
I wish we had a behind-the-skier-view of a passing wedge christie so I could show you how to get that wedge without pushing that foot out and brushing that tail away.
Here's a verbal description of what you need to do and not do:
1. Do not turn your upper body to look in the direction of the new turn in transition. Instead, work to keep your upper body facing sorta downhill the whole run, so that as your skis point left then right, your hips and shoulders will not be turning as much as your legs.
2. Keep your upper body upright, from the hips up; avoid leaning in.
3. Do not allow your outside shoulder-to-outside foot to line up along a straight line (bracing); do not press outward or downward on that outside ski to "pressure" it.
4. Do not do ANYTHING to the new outside ski or the new outside leg to make the wedge start. Erase that ski and that leg from your consciousness.
5. The critical and most difficult part is getting from parallel to wedge without brushing out that new outside tail. To make this seemingly impossible thing happen, you release your new inside ski by flattening it, you delay its turning, and the new outside ski should tip passively onto its new edge and start turning ahead of the inside ski. This is a subtle movement. It helps to have another instructor watching to let you know when you have it.
6. To make the examiners happy, try HARD to keep your wedge stance width the same as when you had parallel skis. This doesn't allow much of a wedge. Examiners will be watching for stance width variations. Keep your stance width stable. Remember, the wedge doesn't need to be wide. It should happen slowly, on its own, and feel "natural."
7. Once the tiny wedge happens and the turn starts, finish it as you do a regular wedge turn. Keep your upper body facing somewhat downhill and upright as the skis turn across the hill.
8. Bring the inside ski in to match the outside ski S-L-O-W-L-Y after the fall line. Your video shows you sliding it into parallel matching quickly. This shouldn't fail you, but it will lose you points (I think). Practice this slowness with diligence. Examiners want to see everything happening nice and smoothly.
By the way, I think this is all pretty pointless since we don't teach students to do a perfect wedge christie. But learning to do a wedge-christy by the book does show the examiners that you are willing to go through weeping and gnashing of teeth for their approval. They will reward you if you can do it.
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i just saw the D-Team member's example above. She stands tall, moving her hips forward to flatten the new inside ski at transition, then sinks as the turn progresses. At the mountain where I first taught, an older examiner did wedge turns and wedge christies this way, but the younger examiner did not. This is evidently an acceptable way to make the wedge happen, because at the second mountain where I worked another older trainer used it. Back on Epic there was a long discussion about whether to teach beginner adults to do this sink-then-stand-tall thing in wedge turns. Some instructors felt it involved too much tiring athleticism for the poor people trying to learn to ski. Do we really want to ask them to do partial squats all morning long? Other instructors used it with great success.
In Bob Barnes' demo he doesn't do this down-up thing. I see him sliding his new inside foot slightly back as he flattens it. This works too, and I used it in my LII and passed, so at least that day, with those examiners, it was OK.
There evidently are a number of acceptable ways to get that wedge to happen, none of them involving pushing the new outside foot outward, rotating that ski's tail outward, or "pressuring" it.
In Bob Barnes' demo he doesn't do this down-up thing. I see him sliding his new inside foot slightly back as he flattens it. This works too, and I used it in my LII and passed, so at least that day, with those examiners, it was OK.
There evidently are a number of acceptable ways to get that wedge to happen, none of them involving pushing the new outside foot outward, rotating that ski's tail outward, or "pressuring" it.
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Thank you. Can you comment on the D-team member's WC relative to each of these points? E.g., I don't feel her upper body is, as described in Point 1, sorta facing downhill. So, is upper body sorta facing downhill an aide to accomplish something down below, and not in itself a requirement?
Some examiners do it with body facing more down the hill as skis point and go across; some don't. Be able to do it both ways for the exam. Some examiners do a pole plant; some don't. Be able to do it both ways for the exam.
If any non-instructors are reading this discussion, I wonder what they are thinking at this point.
If any non-instructors are reading this discussion, I wonder what they are thinking at this point.
I do not understand what this is.
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