Sufficient platform angle and not falling over.
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Drill The Infinity Move
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I could have both of those things and still not RR track....
Explain please. I'm curious.
I *think* I can credit @Josh Matta for this one, although I can't find the quote, so it may be someone else - today I was in a lesson and skiing Lulu's in Horseshoe Bowl - plenty steep for me. The howling wind created smooth chalk - "Groomed by God" as one of my friends would say. What I remember Josh (or someone?) posting was that someone was extending upward when they needed to be extending forward down the hill. I've heard similar before, but somehow this image resonated. This realization that "up" isn't quite it. So with this very confidence inspiring, edge holding snow, I did that. I put my body out there in a way that was both terrifying and exhilarating. And after the run, my instructor said that I had done a great job demonstrating a critical skill - your body being perpendicular to the slope. I guarantee you no one has ever said that about my skiing before. And it felt amazing.
Possibly not directly related to the Infinity Move, but we seem to have wandered in and out of that topic, and I just wanted to share.
Possibly not directly related to the Infinity Move, but we seem to have wandered in and out of that topic, and I just wanted to share.
Pressure both edged skis without steering.
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I've been advocating getting perpendicular for years, ever since I was in a clinic with a PSIA Alpine Team (it was Demo Team then) member and spent the day watching and admiring his turn entries.
Oh, yeah, I've had instructors (and everyone, really) telling me to get forward for years. But something about the specific phrasing of going forward *instead of* up made it click for me in a way that just "get perpendicular to the slope" has not done. I may have heard that one for years, too, but I find it takes roughly 100 to 1 million times hearing ski advice before it actually clicks or I can make use of it.
DOH. Pivot. Silly me.
Monique, This is an important epiphany for many! Another way I try to help skiers discover this sensation is to reverse the timing of "extension" and "edge change". Most skiers begin their extension before they begin the edge change. I challenge them to flip flop the timing of these two movements. Begin the movement across the skis to change edges before beginning the extension! Doing this changes the game.
Now that I've grasped the movement pattern, what you're saying makes sense to me (after I thought about it a bit). Before, those instructions would have been baffling. Skiing is hard! Teaching skiing (at least to someone like me) is harder!
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BB likes to say skiing is easy, learning to ski is hard.
Bob: your infinite move came up in a thread about Bode Miller´s style. I was actually directed to some discussions in Epic, but it was all around these concepts. Sure enough, when a racer (or any offensive skier) is skiing with dynamism and linking turns, the neutral stage of the turn will appear to have the legs moving forward, so depending on the observer´s perspective, the skier might look momentarily as if riding the back seat. But it is just the legs speeding up to complete a longer trajectory.
And back to Bode, in your terms, he´s really, really good. And that was really the conclusion on the thread I mentioned: he will maximize his speed, which means that technique is just a means to turn faster, and perfection was left behind.
Yes. Not like _I_ got it, but I totally get the concept. I feel like a deeply understated advantage of carving a carve is stability in crud. The skis will cut through it. I only accomplished this a handful of times, towards the end of last (my second) season, and it was lovely. I will be working hard to improve, despite having limited access to the precious snow
I also believe that BBś crudology shows a lot of dolphin turns in crud, which I am thinking helps the skier avoid the crappy snow in the transition, when the skis are meant to be flat. The rest of the turn, if railed, will cut through.
Perfection and the secret to Nirvana here
............. I plan to work on this.............
Thread Starter
TS
I'm glad to see the discussion continue on this topic, that I still believe is the most essential fundamental in all of skiing, as well as the most universally misunderstood.
Monique described the breakthrough thought above that <<someone was extending upward when they needed to be extending forward down the hill>>. Yes--it's important! But it's also worth pointing out how even that simple thought can--and all too often does--create dead wrong movements. Don't forget that "forward" and "down the hill" are rarely the same direction in the turn transition, and they are 90 degrees apart when your skis are traveling directly across the hill. If you think of moving your body (CM) "forward along the length of the skis" (as many do and many instructors and coaches still advise) in the transition, you are probably going to completely violate the principle of the Infinity Move and move in the exact wrong direction relative to your feet. Even moreso if you "pull your feet back" at the same time, and even more in the wrong direction if you simultaneously move your body uphill to balance on the uphill/new outside ski in the transition.
Note that the differences between "forward" and "down the hill" become increasingly significant the more complete the turn (the more you are traveling across or even up, rather than down, the hill). For people who don't complete their turns (most recreational skiers!), forward and down the hill are essentially the same. The Infinity Move doesn't become relevant until you are linking offensive, gliding, "direction control" turns, and getting your speed control primarily from tactics and line, rather than from braking and skidding. The better you get, the more important it becomes to not misunderstand it!
It still amazes me how many instructors and coaches have looked at the Infinity Move animation and said something like "that's obvious--I've always known that"--and then proceeded to teach something that completely contradicts it!
Best regards,
Bob
Monique described the breakthrough thought above that <<someone was extending upward when they needed to be extending forward down the hill>>. Yes--it's important! But it's also worth pointing out how even that simple thought can--and all too often does--create dead wrong movements. Don't forget that "forward" and "down the hill" are rarely the same direction in the turn transition, and they are 90 degrees apart when your skis are traveling directly across the hill. If you think of moving your body (CM) "forward along the length of the skis" (as many do and many instructors and coaches still advise) in the transition, you are probably going to completely violate the principle of the Infinity Move and move in the exact wrong direction relative to your feet. Even moreso if you "pull your feet back" at the same time, and even more in the wrong direction if you simultaneously move your body uphill to balance on the uphill/new outside ski in the transition.
Note that the differences between "forward" and "down the hill" become increasingly significant the more complete the turn (the more you are traveling across or even up, rather than down, the hill). For people who don't complete their turns (most recreational skiers!), forward and down the hill are essentially the same. The Infinity Move doesn't become relevant until you are linking offensive, gliding, "direction control" turns, and getting your speed control primarily from tactics and line, rather than from braking and skidding. The better you get, the more important it becomes to not misunderstand it!
It still amazes me how many instructors and coaches have looked at the Infinity Move animation and said something like "that's obvious--I've always known that"--and then proceeded to teach something that completely contradicts it!
Best regards,
Bob
Last edited:
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Bob, as an Examiner, do you feel that the Infinity Move (there, I called it that! but I still prefer Foot-Squirt™) is in sync with the Demo Team's Five Fundamentals? OK, two part question, is it in sync with the words that they use, and is it in sync with what they actually teach and practice?
