Suicide in ski town article.

[SBrown]

Many of the "rich" are just broke a different level. They still have pressures, jsut different ones. I recall an old boss of mine saying "you can have my money, but you get my problems that coem with it".

Most studies I've seen say that happiness lies between a floor and a ceiling of income: you need X amount to live at a decent level, but beyond Y, there is no real benefit as far as happiness. (Mo money mo problems.) That level, adjusted by state: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/map-happiness-benchmark_n_5592194.html

 

[skibob]

WOW. Our house in Longmont is cheap compared to more desirable places like Boulder, but that's crazy. Also I covet a 5 car garage.

Yeah, for comparison, I just saw a listing for about the same money in Truckee: 1bd/1ba 527sf, no garage. At least its in a safe and beautiful place, but man, what a difference!

 

[Monique]

Yeah, for comparison, I just saw a listing for about the same money in Truckee: 1bd/1ba 527sf, no garage. At least its in a safe and beautiful place, but man, what a difference!

Just checked Zillow. In my part of town, a listing at $350k is a townhome with 2bd/3ba. 1600sq ft. Don't see a garage and it's a brand new build with construction still going on around. So I guess kind of in between.

 

[Monique]

Just checked Zillow. In my part of town, a listing at $350k is a townhome with 2bd/3ba. 1600sq ft. Don't see a garage and it's a brand new build with construction still going on around. So I guess kind of in between.

Also this makes me realize how much our house must have appreciated, because we paid less than that 12 years ago.

 

[skibob]

Also this makes me realize how much our house must have appreciated, because we paid less than that 12 years ago.

Equity is a beautiful thing. But I am assuming that, like me, you did not get there by working a ski resort job. This all highlights a really important issue regarding distribution of wealth that is much bigger than skiing itself, yet which impacts skiing in every way imaginable.

 

[Monique]

Equity is a beautiful thing. But I am assuming that, like me, you did not get there by working a ski resort job. This all highlights a really important issue regarding distribution of wealth that is much bigger than skiing itself, yet which impacts skiing in every way imaginable.

Correct. I do know people who are software engineers who work remotely in Breck. They need to hustle hustle hustle for clients, and they tend to be deep in esoteric technologies, not the "fun new" stuff.

 

[Tricia]

Funny, I originally posted the link to the article about suicide in the rents thread.
https://forum.pugski.com/threads/rents-trouble-in-ski-town.1013/page-3#post-42254

This thread is circling back to affordable housing

There is a connection

 

[neonorchid]

So baby, let's sell your diamond ring
Buy some boots and faded jeans and go away
This coat and tie is choking me
In your high society you cry all day
We've been so busy keepin' up with the Jones
Four car garage and we're still building on

Okay, yes, money comes with its own pressures, but when you have money, you have the option to scale down and make less money and probably still do pretty well for yourself. When you're poor, the opposite isn't necessarily true. I don't know if the people who've lived their lives in ski towns are necessarily going to find better paying jobs out in the "real world" - although with all that hustle and cheaper standard of living, maybe they can do a lot better if they move.

Tom Shadyac -
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Tom-Shadyacs-Mobile-Home-and-Life-Now-Video_1
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Tom-Shadyac-From-Millionaire-to-Mobile-Home

 

[drewski]

interesting discussion, I live at sea level on a island that is a resort community and we have a suicide problem. many of the causes listed in previous post exist here accept for the altitude.Cape Cod also experiences a higher suicide rate.Both of these communities have substance abuse problems higher than average but some of the more recent suicides didn't abuse substances.

 

[Karen_skier2.0]

Suicide is overwhelmingly a white male thing, with Native Americans coming in next. Geographically, that computes. But chicken or egg?

Women attempt suicide, men succeed since they are more likely to use more violent methods, i.e. guns.

 

[Monique]

Women attempt suicide, men succeed since they are more likely to use more violent methods, i.e. guns.

Isn't it less about violent and more about looks? I don't really know, but my impression (probably from TV procedurals) is that women go for methods that don't ruin their faces.

 

[James]

Suicide is overwhelmingly a white male thing, with Native Americans coming in next. Geographically, that computes. But chicken or egg?

If you add non white and black you get close to white. Men are nearly 4x women.

http://www.suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/FactSheets/2014/2014datapgsv1b.pdf

 

[SBrown]

If you add non white and black you get close to white. f

How so? You don't add rates like that, do you? Wouldn't you have to add the denominators and say it's per 200,000? (I'm foggy, need to go back to sleep.)

 

[SkiNurse]

Isn't it less about violent and more about looks? I don't really know, but my impression (probably from TV procedurals) is that women go for methods that don't ruin their faces.

Did I really just read this????
No It's not about female vanity, it's about access. Believe me with what I see at work EVERY DAY, these people couldn't give two about their looks if they have chosen to take their life. More men that attempt/commit suicide have access to weapons and more women have access to medications. But, does it really matter? We all have demons and things that make us sad. For the most part (and this isn't true for everyone) these people are so sad they feel this is their only option and they have run out of their ways to cope. And it's not just their pain, it's the pain & guilt we see in their loved ones with their every attempt or when they finally succeed.

I am so fortunate that I have only experienced this professionally & not personally. I do though, have many friends acquaintances that have been affected by a loved one that has committed suicide. I don't ever want to feel that type of emotional pain.

Now back to some professional commentary. I work with some great psychiatric professionals: docs, MSW, nurses.There is a pattern to the time of year that people attempt suicide. People that are acutely depressed (loved one dies, divorce, financial problems, relationship break up) and by acute, doesn't necessarily mean "new" depression. These are people that with their raw memories or old memories have more issues around holidays/special dates: Christmas, Hannukka, birthdays, anniversaries, etc) that will attempt during those times of remembering. These seem to be less successful and a lot of times a "cry for help". They usually are easy to "find", call loved ones or EMS prior to or after the attempt (obviously not a gun) and prior to the attempt have a "sad" or "depressed" affect.

Then there are the people that have true psychiatric diagnoses: bipolar, schizo, chronic/organic depression (these people are just *depressed* without an "reason"), etc. These people are usually more successful at suicide. The can be sad, depressed or with a flat affect, but then usually they are perky and *happy* prior. That is usually because they now have an active *plan* and know they will be most likely successful. They write letters to loved ones and get their affairs in order. If they plan on using a gun, some will actually call EMS right prior to the act with instructions on organ donation. Yes, this really does happen!. Even though this can happen any time of the year, these people seem to be more affected by the seasons. In particular, we see more of these at work during the fall & spring equinoxes. Why? Who knows? But, we definitely get more during this time.

So all of the that is professional observation from being a CCU/ICU nurse for the last 20 years. Are there exceptions to the rules? Yep, because when it come to suicide there are no rules.

That is all.

 

[Monique]

Did I really just read this????
No It's not about female vanity, it's about access. Believe me with what I see at work EVERY DAY, these people couldn't give two about their looks if they have chosen to take their life. More men that attempt/commit suicide have access to weapons and more women have access to medications. But, does it really matter? We all have demons and things that make us sad. For the most part (and this isn't true for everyone) these people are so sad they feel this is their only option and they have run out of their ways to cope. And it's not just their pain, it's the pain & guilt we see in their loved ones with their every attempt or when they finally succeed.

I am so fortunate that I have only experienced this professionally & not personally. I do though, have many friends acquaintances that have been affected by a loved one that has committed suicide. I don't ever want to feel that type of emotional pain.

Now back to some professional commentary. I work with some great psychiatric professionals: docs, MSW, nurses.There is a pattern to the time of year that people attempt suicide. People that are acutely depressed (loved one dies, divorce, financial problems, relationship break up) and by acute, doesn't necessarily mean "new" depression. These are people that with their raw memories or old memories have more issues around holidays/special dates: Christmas, Hannukka, birthdays, anniversaries, etc) that will attempt during those times of remembering. These seem to be less successful and a lot of times a "cry for help". They usually are easy to "find", call loved ones or EMS prior to or after the attempt (obviously not a gun) and prior to the attempt have a "sad" or "depressed" affect.

Then there are the people that have true psychiatric diagnoses: bipolar, schizo, chronic/organic depression (these people are just *depressed* without an "reason"), etc. These people are usually more successful at suicide. The can be sad, depressed or with a flat affect, but then usually they are perky and *happy* prior. That is usually because they now have an active *plan* and know they will be most likely successful. They write letters to loved ones and get their affairs in order. If they plan on using a gun, some will actually call EMS right prior to the act with instructions on organ donation. Yes, this really does happen!. Even though this can happen any time of the year, these people seem to be more affected by the seasons. In particular, we see more of these at work during the fall & spring equinoxes. Why? Who knows? But, we definitely get more during this time.

So all of the that is professional observation from being a CCU/ICU nurse for the last 20 years. Are there exceptions to the rules? Yep, because when it come to suicide there are no rules.

That is all.

You read this because, as I said, I don't have a lot of knowledge about this. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

 

[SBrown]

Women attempt suicide, men succeed since they are more likely to use more violent methods, i.e. guns.

Yes, but I meant the racial component more than gender. The suicide rate is much higher for whites and Native Americans; the states that make up the Rocky Mountain region (and then Alaska) all have a higher proportion of white residents than the lower-suicide regions; I think only Alaska has white population below average (which is 62%), but more than makes up for it with percentage of Native Americans. http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-raceethnicity/

So my question is, Are the white and N.A. suicide rates higher because those are the people more likely to commit suicide (due to ... cultural factors?), or is it because those are the people who live in the areas where suicide is more prevalent (due to environmental factors). I'm sure there are some tables where we could figure this out. eg Check D.C., with a very low suicide rate, and also the lowest percentage of white residents (next to Hawaii) and highest percentage of black residents. I guess you'd need to find the percentage of suicides who were white vs black in D.C., and this would help.

 

[James]

How so? You don't add rates like that, do you? Wouldn't you have to add the denominators and say it's per 200,000? (I'm foggy, need to go back to sleep.)

The denominators have to be the same to add them and you don't add the denominator.
1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3, not 2/6 which is the same as 1/3.

However, I don't think you can add them actually, so I'm wrong. For one, it seems as if in the "non white" they are already including everyone else. Second, it looks like they're averaging when they do for example male + female caucasian. So maybe a stats person can comment.

Looking at another page, we get these stats for 2012:
--------------------
In 2012 Caucasians had a suicide rate of 14.1 per 100,000. The Non-Caucasian suicide rate in 2012 was 6.1 per 100,000 - less than half the rate among Caucasians.

Caucasian males had a suicide rate of 22.6 per 100,000, and Caucasian females had a suicide rate of 6.1 per 100,000...

Firearms were used in 57.5% of Caucasian male suicides and 32.4% of Caucasian female suicides, making firearms significantly more common than other methods used by Caucasians.

In 2012 out of the 40,600 suicide fatalities in the US in 2012 36,606 were Caucasian, thus Caucasians accounted for 90.2% of suicides in the United States. Caucasian males alone accounted for 78.2% of all suicides during 2012.
------------------------
http://www.suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/FactSheets/Caucasian2012.pdf

So...you're right. Mostly white male. Females seem to be catching up in use of firearms. 30 years ago I think it was fairly rare.

Females attempt suicide at a rate nearly 3x as high as males though.(US)
http://www.suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/FactSheets/2014/2014datapgsv1b.pdf

Some of that may be reporting differences, but it generally is due to methods by poisoining instead of hanging or firearms. Female suicide in the US increased 40% 2000-2012 compared to male 19%.
http://www.suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/FactSheets/Caucasian2012.pdf

The US doesn't even rank in the top 10. Lithuania is number 1, with males at 51/100,000 compared to US at 19.4. (WHO 2012. Wikipedia has slightly different numbers)
Highest female rate looking through the list:
(US-5.2/100,000)
Guyana- 22.1, India- 16.4, Mozambique- 21.1,
Nepal- 20.0, South Korea- 18.0, Tanzania-18.3
A bunch of African countries are in double digits.

WHO: http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.MHSUICIDE?lang=en
Wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide

WHO uses "age standarized" rates to compare.
Here's the definition:

"The numbers of deaths per 100 000 population are influenced by the age distribution of the population. Two populations with the same age-specific mortality rates for a particular cause of death will have different overall death rates if the age distributions of their populations are different. Age-standardized mortality rates adjust for differences in the age distribution of the population by applying the observed age-specific mortality rates for each population to a standard population.

The age-standardized mortality rate is a weighted average of the age-specific mortality rates per 100 000 persons, where the weights are the proportions of persons in the corresponding age groups of the WHO standard population."
http://apps.who.int/gho/indicatorregistry/App_Main/view_indicator.aspx?iid=78

 

[Tricia]

If you add non white and black you get close to white. Men are nearly 4x women.

View attachment 9393
http://www.suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/FactSheets/2014/2014datapgsv1b.pdf

So, Men ages 45-54, which falls into the demographic of the article linked in the OP.

 

[SBrown]

The denominators have to be the same to add them and you don't add the denominator.
1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3, not 2/6 which is the same as 1/3.8

But if you are talking about 5.8 of 100,000 nonwhites, and 5.2 out of 100,000 blacks, that's 11 out of 200,000 total people; the rate for whites is 12 of 100,000 people. That's what I meant by adding, you have to add the number of total subjects as well.

 

[SkiNurse]

You read this because, as I said, I don't have a lot of knowledge about this. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

This has nothing to do with not having a lot of knowledge about a very serious & sad subject. There is a ton of information out there about suicide and one doesn't have to do much Google research to find it. There are so many misconceptions about suicide; don't you think it's irresponsible to add to them based on "TV procedurals"?