Suicide in ski town article.

[Karen_skier2.0]

I had a client EXPLODE on me over this & we're low altitude; his beef was that Ski Towns run on the backs of alcoholics with broken dreams & how dare I suggest that excessive drinking may just be offensive & off putting to some.

I don't care how small and broke a town is--there's always a liquor store and a bar.

 

[SShore]

I find this a very interesting discussion, especially since most of the contributors seem to be Front Rangers. They have a unique perspective of being NEAR the mountains and visiting often, but not actually LIVING in the mountains. I've spend a great deal of time in Colorado, both growing up in Oklahoma and going on both winter and summer vacations, going on ski trips as an adult and now having a daughter in college in Durango. While I love the mountains and love visiting the ski towns, I can't think of a single one I would want to LIVE in. Not so much because of the economic reasons, although those are good reasons, but because none of them seem real or genuine to me. Susan mentioned it before, people come, people go, the town stays the same, but you develop Community with people, not places.

It would be interesting to see if the suicide rates are as high in places like Salida or Glenwood Springs or Pagosa, etc. that are near the mountains and ski areas, but have economies not based on tourist dollars and have more stable demographics and more sense of Community.

 

[SBrown]

^^ It's also worth pointing out that there are communities in ski towns, too, and that most people who are dissatisfied don't off themselves ;-) They just move away. So, numbers-wise, I'm not really sure we'll see anything? The "epidemic" seems a little bit anecdotal, but the towns are small, and any increase is surely noticeable.

 

[UGASkiDawg]

I find this a very interesting discussion, especially since most of the contributors seem to be Front Rangers. They have a unique perspective of being NEAR the mountains and visiting often, but not actually LIVING in the mountains. I've spend a great deal of time in Colorado, both growing up in Oklahoma and going on both winter and summer vacations, going on ski trips as an adult and now having a daughter in college in Durango. While I love the mountains and love visiting the ski towns, I can't think of a single one I would want to LIVE in. Not so much because of the economic reasons, although those are good reasons, but because none of them seem real or genuine to me. Susan mentioned it before, people come, people go, the town stays the same, but you develop Community with people, not places.

It would be interesting to see if the suicide rates are as high in places like Salida or Glenwood Springs or Pagosa, etc. that are near the mountains and ski areas, but have economies not based on tourist dollars and have more stable demographics and more sense of Community.

Well except the economies of both those towns are based on tourist dollars...........

 

[fatbob]

Glenwood is totally a tourist/transit town - just check out the number of hotels/motels.

I get the impression that lots of Colorado high country towns are chock full of active retirees and part time residents - this is I think less the second home weekend warriors and more the 2 months on/1 month back east types. There seem to be plenty of "community" activities available to those with the time and the wallet for them; probably less so for the people who are scraping by.

I'm surprised no-one has pointed to gender demographics in influencing male depression - fact is ski towns are very difficult for men to find long term partners in and I'm pretty sure its easier to be resilient in a couple than alone (notwithstanding the pressure put on relationships by finance & ability to secure a home to rais a family etc)

 

[Monique]

I'm surprised no-one has pointed to gender demographics in influencing male depression - fact is ski towns are very difficult for men to find long term partners in and I'm pretty sure its easier to be resilient in a couple than alone (notwithstanding the pressure put on relationships by finance & ability to secure a home to rais a family etc)

Good point. The ACL thing has had me thinking a lot about the benefits of being coupled. That being said, there was a comedy video somewhere about relationships in a ski town .... it's not just that there are far more men than women; the men also often have personalities and habits that don't lend themselves to coupled life (ie, give and take, maybe missing a powder day).

 

[SBrown]

Glenwood is totally a tourist/transit town - just check out the number of hotels/motels.

I get the impression that lots of Colorado high country towns are chock full of active retirees and part time residents - this is I think less the second home weekend warriors and more the 2 months on/1 month back east types. There seem to be plenty of "community" activities available to those with the time and the wallet for them; probably less so for the people who are scraping by.

I'm surprised no-one has pointed to gender demographics in influencing male depression - fact is ski towns are very difficult for men to find long term partners in and I'm pretty sure its easier to be resilient in a couple than alone (notwithstanding the pressure put on relationships by finance & ability to secure a home to rais a family etc)

Yeah, especially the lower-altitude, banana-beltish Western Slope ones. Durango, Montrose, etc, all have had large influxes of retirees in the past couple of decades. The Front Range is booming, but the Western Slope is having economic difficulties again, because it's so highly reliant on energy. That cycle doesn't really matter if you're retired, though. Same with schools ... definitely going to get better quality and variety in a more-populated area, but hell I'm done with that, too, as of last Wednesday. Economic realities are real.

 

[Monique]

definitely going to get better quality and variety in a more-populated area, but hell I'm done with that, too, as of last Wednesday

Sooo ... selling the Denver house and moving to Carbondale?

 

[SBrown]

Sooo ... selling the Denver house and moving to Carbondale?

Nope ... I meant I no longer have to consider schools when choosing where I live. (Except insofar as good public schools help property values, but even then...)

The discussion (or its tangent) is intriguing me, of course, based on me being one of those retirees. People always ask if we are selling in Denver, and no way, not unless financially we have to. And then we would probably sell Carbondale, not Denver. That's where family is, and long-time friends, our community. We will see what this new stage brings us, though.

(^^ And yes, I fully realize that's not a financial reality for most, nor is it the point of the early part of this discussion. The tangent being, who is happy in mountain towns?)

 

[David Chaus]

(^^ And yes, I fully realize that's not a financial reality for most, nor is it the point of the early part of this discussion. The tangent being, who is happy in mountain towns?)

Sounds like you will be.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

The article certainly isn't a study, but you'd think there would be lots of "controls" that you could look at between various towns. For example, suicide is high in AK, but altitude is low. Places with guns, places without. I'd imagine that towns such as Chamonix and Verbier have many of the same economic and social conditions you see in a place like Jackson Hole, but do they have the same problem? Why is it so much worse in the Rocky Mountains than the Green Mountains? How does this all compare to Nonavut, the suicide capital of the world? No rich people in Nunavut. How does the low-altitude, socialist utopia of Finland compare?

 

[skibob]

I grew up at 7000 ft and chalked up the depression in our town to higher than average substance abuse and just generally hard to make a life living conditions. That is every mountain town. They all have some quirk or nuance that will test anyone's mental health. You have to be slightly a crazy weirdo to survive as a local in most mountain towns. Crazy weirdos have a higher tendency to off themselves from what I have seen.

Regardless of the reason (and you may be on to something), I don't think it is the altitude per se.

In fact, you'll all be very happy to know that living at altitude has a lot of health BENEFITS:

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/altitude-mortality.shtml

 

[quant]

The above posts may be significant. I used to live in Vail and definitely noticed the lack of women (smart single guys with housing would find visitors in the summer and invite them to stay with them in the winter). There may also be something to the fact that some people run to the mountains to escape. One guy I skied with in the late 1980's was always trying to escape what we now know as PTSD (he claimed to be an ex-machine gunner in a Huey). While drunk, he once told me of his constant nightmares. Tragically, he ended up in jail for life after committing murder.

 

[Ron]

I won't even go into all the serious injuries these guys have racked up over the years. Anyway, I worry about them & what they'll go through when they hit their 40s.

This is very real and troubling. Even with medicaid and the current watered down Obamacare, a lot of people still cannot get real and decent medical care. I know several folks who have a very hard time even working now since they cannot get the care they need. Many can no longer do the activities they came to Mtn towns to do. A lot of Skiers/riders do manual labor during the summer and many face not being able to work due to injuries. I am very fortunate to have good Healthcare but am still struggling to get my body back into condition to be able to hike or bike let alone try to do some type landscaping or construction.

 

[SBrown]

The article certainly isn't a study, but you'd think there would be lots of "controls" that you could look at between various towns. For example, suicide is high in AK, but altitude is low. Places with guns, places without. I'd imagine that towns such as Chamonix and Verbier have many of the same economic and social conditions you see in a place like Jackson Hole, but do they have the same problem? Why is it so much worse in the Rocky Mountains than the Green Mountains? How does this all compare to Nonavut, the suicide capital of the world? No rich people in Nunavut. How does the low-altitude, socialist utopia of Finland compare?

Well, there are a lot of other articles/studies that discuss this, absent the "ski town" focus. This is some of the stuff I've read in the past. Alaska is up there with the Rocky Mountain states in its suicide rates, yes. Also, "in a 2010 study published in High Altitude Medicine and Biology, the Case Western group analyzed suicide rates across 2,584 counties in 16 states and found that suicides start increasing between 2,000 and 3,000 feet in all U.S. regions. The U.S. isn't a special case — analysis of suicide rates in other countries, including South Korea and Austria, bore similar results."

https://mic.com/articles/104096/the...neuroscientist-thinks-he-knows-why#.VmGN2hFIj


This article has some other interesting tidbits:

"Renshaw himself undertook an informal study of researchers who moved to Utah from coastal areas and found that around 35% experienced new, often pronounced, symptoms of anxiety and depression.

"Still, a host of evidence spoke to the other side of the paradox — the positive feelings associated with living in America's "happiest" state. Clinical trial participants who grew up in Utah and moved away, for example, often told Renshaw they returned home to the "call of the mountains." He spoke to researchers in Colorado who reported the same trend: People born and raised in the mountains moved to lower land and found themselves longing for their home state."

"Women, who naturally have half as much serotonin as men, Renshaw said, are more likely to develop a mood disorder as a result of living in the mountains (about 24% of middle-aged women in Utah take an SSRI — double the national rate. The various anecdotes about anxious Utah women, Renshaw believes, bolster his theory)."

"But those without a predisposition to mental illness will, on the flip side, feel happier. By Renshaw's estimates, the brain makes about 20% more dopamine in the mountains.

People who leave their hearts in Utah might be homesick for their family and friends, but they may also be missing the high of living up high. Outdoor junkies, Renshaw proffered, could be just that: junkies jonesing for some oxygen-deprived air."

 

[SkiNurse]

I don't care how small and broke a town is--there's always a liquor store and a bar.

It has been shown time & time again, in the worse depressions & recessions, bars & liquor stores thrive.

 

[Monique]

Regardless of the reason (and you may be on to something), I don't think it is the altitude per se.

In fact, you'll all be very happy to know that living at altitude has a lot of health BENEFITS:

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/altitude-mortality.shtml

Any chance of a summary?

 

[SBrown]

Regardless of the reason (and you may be on to something), I don't think it is the altitude per se.
l

Except ... I think it could make a lot of sense. Because there are plenty of places with poor economic situations, wealth gaps, transience, guns, whatever, that don't seem to have the same jump in suicide rates. Read the article I linked, or any of the articles about that study; it's interesting, for sure.

 

[Monique]

What are suicide rates in inner city communities with poverty and limited job prospects?

 

[James]

Wonder if it's sleep related problems at altitude that contribute.

I find it difficult to believe 2-3k ft starts presenting a problem due to altitude. Perhaps at 2-3 k ft places are different and don't haveas many people, friends, social network etc. i don't think any city and very few towns in VT, NH are above 2k ft. Yet opiod and heroin addiction are big issues in both states.