Suicide in ski town article.

[Ron]

Wonder if it's sleep related problems at altitude that contribute.

I find it difficult to believe 2-3k ft starts presenting a problem due to altitude. Perhaps at 2-3 k ft places are different and don't haveas many people, friends, social network etc. i don't think any city and very few towns in VT, NH are above 2k ft. Yet opiod and heroin addiction are big issues in both states.

Keep in mind the actual % of people committing suicide is very small (not diminishing it) so even a small increase in the affects of altitude could show up statistically.

 

[skibob]

Any chance of a summary?

Basic Summary:
Breathing pure oxygen lowers the oxygen content of tissues; breathing rarefied air, or air with carbon dioxide, oxygenates and energizes the tissues . . . And respiratory physiology holds the key to the special functions of all the organs, and to many of their basic pathological changes.

People who live at very high altitudes live significantly longer; they have a lower incidence of cancer (Weinberg, et al., 1987) and heart disease (Mortimer, et al., 1977), and other degenerative conditions, than people who live near sea level. . . . several kinds of evidence indicate that it is the lower oxygen pressure itself that makes the biggest contribution to their longevity.

The Haldane-Bohr effect describes the fact that oxygen and carbon dioxide destabilize each other’s binding to hemoglobin. When oxygen pressure is high, the blood releases its carbon dioxide more easily. . . . Carbon dioxide, produced in the cells, releases oxygen into the tissues, relaxes blood vessels, prevents edema, eliminates ammonia, and increases the efficiency of oxidative metabolism.

And an interesting tidbit:
According to Meerson, ascending more than 200 feet per day produces measurable stress. People seldom notice the effects of ascending a few thousand feet in a day, but it has been found that a large proportion of people have bleeding into the retina when they ascend to 10,000 feet without adequate adaptation. Presumably, similar symptomless bleeding occurs in other organs, but the retina can be easily inspected.

 

[Tricia]

Perhaps. And I'm not ever talking about socializing -- it's the deeper support networks and friendships that are made difficult in a transient society.

Put another way, I don't think financial jealousy is actively driving people over the edge.

I think the transient lifestyle leaves many without a real support system, feeling disconnected. Add the housing situation with the need to have several roommates in order to afford a place to live. Roommates aren't necessarily friends

You move to the ski town in your 20's then one day you wake up and you're in your 40's, still living with roommates, and the harsh reality sets in. No savings, no (decent) set of wheels, no consistent work, and tired of living like you're in a frat house

The fact that you've chosen to make a life, not a living, is something you have to reevaluate from time to time.

 

[skibob]

Wonder if it's sleep related problems at altitude that contribute.

I find it difficult to believe 2-3k ft starts presenting a problem due to altitude. Perhaps at 2-3 k ft places are different and don't haveas many people, friends, social network etc. i don't think any city and very few towns in VT, NH are above 2k ft. Yet opiod and heroin addiction are big issues in both states.

I generally think the sleep issues disappear with acclimation. They certainly do for me. They lessen considerably after 2-3 days and are gone after a week.

As far as 2-3,000 causing a stress response, I can see it. If you are talking about the link I posted, he admits these stress responses may not be observable to the naked eye or directly experienced by the person.

 

[bbinder]

It has been shown time & time again, in the worse depressions & recessions, bars & liquor stores thrive.

Yeah, this. Cape Cod, Nantucket, and Martha's Vineyard are terrific places and very crowded in the summer. During the winter, these places can feel very isolated -- alcoholism and opioid use abounds. An friend of mine lived on Nantucket year round for a period of time when she was working and living with a scallop fisherman. She said the only things that everyone did during the winter was drink and get into fights.

 

[Core2]

I'm sure the suicide rate in the trailer park or apartment complex just outside of town is a lot higher than in the golf course mansions.

 

[Tricia]

I'm surprised no-one has pointed to gender demographics in influencing male depression - fact is ski towns are very difficult for men to find long term partners in and I'm pretty sure its easier to be resilient in a couple than alone (notwithstanding the pressure put on relationships by finance & ability to secure a home to rais a family etc)

Phil and I talked about this. Being a couple makes a difference.
Support, encouragement, and the general sense that you're desireable.
With the make/female ratio in these areas, I'm not sure how a guy is supposed to find a girl, let alone THE girl

 

[SBrown]

I'm sure the suicide rate in the trailer park or apartment complex just outside of town is a lot higher than in the golf course mansions.

Dunno.

http://business.time.com/2012/11/08/why-suicides-are-more-common-in-richer-neighborhoods/

 

[Core2]

Dunno.

http://business.time.com/2012/11/08/why-suicides-are-more-common-in-richer-neighborhoods/

You just hear about wealthy people offing themselves more than the trailer park junkie who decided to take an oxycontin induced dirt nap.

 

[James]

Well this study from 2013 came up with the transient life style prevalent in the west. From 2010, Wyoming had the highest suicide rate, more than Alaska.

Nationally, 12.4 of every 100,000 people committed suicide in 2010, according to the association. In Wyoming, the rate was 23.2 per every 100,000 people, while in Washington, D.C., it was to 6.8. The suicide rate in the Mountain West was 18.3, about twice as high as the rate in the Mid-Atlantic (9.4), the region with the lowest suicide rate in 2010.

Methodology:

To measure residential stability, they looked at the percentage change in the number of households between 1990 and 2000 and the percentage of the population over age 5 that lived in the same house a year earlier. For population density, they looked at the number of people per square mile. Variables such as divorce rates and religious adherence were taken into account, as were controls for income, age, race, ethnicity, gender, religious identity, and firearm ownership. Data were analyzed at the state level.

The West was identified as a suicide hotbed as early as the 19th century and remains so today.

http://www.rwjf.org/en/library/arti...ving-the-riddle-of-the-u-s--suicide-belt.html

 

[SBrown]

You just hear about wealthy people offing themselves more than the trailer park junkie who decided to take an oxycontin induced dirt nap.

Mississippi has a pretty low rate, ergo, you're wrong!

 

[James]

“Despite preconceptions that suicide is more prevalent in high-income countries," the report states, "in reality, 75 percent of suicides occur in low- and middle-income countries."

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/the-new-demographics-of-suicide/379961/

The 2014 Data by State:

http://www.suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/FactSheets/2014/2014datapgsv1b.pdf

From that same site, the sleep issue:
Quote:

Insomnia is predictive of suicidal thoughts and behaviors, even when depression, drug-use, alcohol-related problems, PTSD, hopelessness and symptoms of anxiety have been controlled (Ribeiro et al., 2012; Wong & Brower, 2012; Bjørngaard et al., 2011).

There is an almost 5-fold increase in risk for suicide when sleep problems occur “almost every night.” (Bjørngaard et al., 2011)
/quote
http://suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/FactSheets/2011/NocturnalSleepDisturbances2014.pdf

 

[SBrown]

Suicide is overwhelmingly a white male thing, with Native Americans coming in next. Geographically, that computes. But chicken or egg?

 

[Core2]

WTF @ Florida.

 

[nay]

I wonder about cortisol. Altitude affects its production, and it has been correlated to suicide @ higher levels before age 40 and lower levels after age 40.

I think the sleep issue as noted above is probably a major factor. I deal with sleep disturbances from time to time, but they don't bother me psychologically and can be addressed with yoga and other integrative practices - I had never correlated any of that to altitude, but now I wonder...

My wife is tremendously bothered by dreams and other minor disturbances, and a sensitivity there correlating to altitude would seemingly be difficult to handle over time and isn't something you acclimate to.

 

[Monique]

The discussion of sleep reminded me of central sleep apnea, something I recently heard about that I've never seen discussed in ski fora, I don't think.

https://forum.pugski.com/threads/sleeping-at-altitude-central-sleep-apnea.2033/

 

[Philpug]

I'm sure the suicide rate in the trailer park or apartment complex just outside of town is a lot higher than in the golf course mansions.

Many of the "rich" are just broke a different level. They still have pressures, jsut different ones. I recall an old boss of mine saying "you can have my money, but you get my problems that coem with it".

 

[Monique]

So baby, let's sell your diamond ring
Buy some boots and faded jeans and go away
This coat and tie is choking me
In your high society you cry all day
We've been so busy keepin' up with the Jones
Four car garage and we're still building on

Okay, yes, money comes with its own pressures, but when you have money, you have the option to scale down and make less money and probably still do pretty well for yourself. When you're poor, the opposite isn't necessarily true. I don't know if the people who've lived their lives in ski towns are necessarily going to find better paying jobs out in the "real world" - although with all that hustle and cheaper standard of living, maybe they can do a lot better if they move.

 

[skibob]

So baby, let's sell your diamond ring
Buy some boots and faded jeans and go away
This coat and tie is choking me
In your high society you cry all day
We've been so busy keepin' up with the Jones
Four car garage and we're still building on

Okay, yes, money comes with its own pressures, but when you have money, you have the option to scale down and make less money and probably still do pretty well for yourself. When you're poor, the opposite isn't necessarily true. I don't know if the people who've lived their lives in ski towns are necessarily going to find better paying jobs out in the "real world" - although with all that hustle and cheaper standard of living, maybe they can do a lot better if they move.

There's definitely that. I know somebody who just sold a home in Indianapolis. 5000 sf 4bd/4ba, 5 car garage, 1000sf workshop, beautiful wooded lot, everything brand new down to the studs. $350,000.

Just for reference point.

 

[Monique]

There's definitely that. I know somebody who just sold a home in Indianapolis. 5000 sf 4bd/4ba, 5 car garage, 1000sf workshop, beautiful wooded lot, everything brand new down to the studs. $350,000.

WOW. Our house in Longmont is cheap compared to more desirable places like Boulder, but that's crazy. Also I covet a 5 car garage.