Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment

[Tom K.]

I applied it myself to 3 pair using 1 kit of Phantom 1.0. Much more cost effective than using all that product on 1 pair of skis and pay ing for application.

Now THAT is intriguing. Are you confident that you were able to adequately treat all three pair?

Living on the other side of the Cascades from you, it would be easy to apply in the July or August sun.

 

[pchewn]

Now THAT is intriguing. Are you confident that you were able to adequately treat all three pair?

Living on the other side of the Cascades from you, it would be easy to apply in the July or August sun.

I used one of 2 packages for 1 pair, saw that there was excess, so treated 2 pair with the remaining package. Plenty of product if you apply carefully and don't let it drip off the ski. I cured it in the hot, long July sun.

 

[Jacques]

I just dropped off 3 pairs of skis at REI to be phantomed. The price to do "used"/not new skis was $152 a pair. The rough breakdown as follows: $100 for the product, $30 to get the ski bases prepped, $22 for labor.

Worth it? I sure hope so! I think I am a typical use customer. I can tell the difference when my skis have a fresh wax, but I can't tell enough for performance/race orientated. Plus, I'm not running gates.

I just want my skis to glide smoothly!

You can get about 1,200 grams of Dominator Graphite Zoom for that price. Then again, you would have to wax the skis, scrape & brush. Lots of work, but with 1,200 grams you can wax the skis 60 times! Bonus is, your skis will glide better too!
Problem is you have to do the work.
For those that have not the time or inclination to wax, then use the stuff, but it will never match good waxing.
I guess they will have a market to sell as only the few and the proud have the time, place to do all that waxing work.
The vast majority of average skiers that make up the bulk of skiers just don't know how to, or have ever waxed a ski.

It's like this. You don't want to wax skis. Here is an actual solution that will actually work way better than Phantom.
It's called Dominator Momentium. One for cold and one for warm. No iron needed and works better on an extruded bases than hot waxing one.
Link to Momentium http://www.dominatorwax.com/products/momentium-warm
http://www.dominatorwax.com/products/momentium-cold

 

[E221b]

You can get about 1,200 grams of Dominator Graphite Zoom for that price. Then again, you would have to wax the skis, scrape & brush. Lots of work, but with 1,200 grams you can wax the skis 60 times! Bonus is, your skis will glide better too!
Problem is you have to do the work.
For those that have not the time or inclination to wax, then use the stuff, but it will never match good waxing.
I guess they will have a market to sell as only the few and the proud have the time, place to do all that waxing work.
The vast majority of average skiers that make up the bulk of skiers just don't know how to, or have ever waxed a ski.

It's like this. You don't want to wax skis. Here is an actual solution that will actually work way better than Phantom.
It's called Dominator Momentium. One for cold and one for warm. No iron needed and works better on an extruded bases than hot waxing one.
Link to Momentium http://www.dominatorwax.com/products/momentium-warm
http://www.dominatorwax.com/products/momentium-cold

Wow Jacques. You really really don’t like Phantom...
It‘s not your cup of tea. I do get it. But it’s honestly a good product for anyone who doesn’t want to deal with wax... Personally, I’m an advanced skier and I still would rather use Phantom then deal with waxing, not to mention the lessened environmental impact compared to wax

 

[Noodler]

What remains to be seen (since Phantom hasn't been around long enough) is how the base survives the environmental exposure over time. Normally an unwaxed base, left to sit for years without any wax protection, will degrade without even using the ski. Although the higher grade bases available these days have improved their durability, all bases are subject to "drying out" if not cared for. I still wonder whether the DPS treatment actually protects a base over time. Does it "nourish and enrich" the base like real wax? I think the answer is already in that it does not. So if that's the case, what does that mean for long-term health of the ski base for skis that only use the DPS Phantom treatment?

 

[Jenny]

For me, I'm not going to notice because I can't tell you how many years I skied before I even heard the term "summer wax". So I'm thinking that if I actually get them waxed in the spring, even just a regular wax, this pair will probably be better off than any other pair I've had.

 

[Andy Mink]

For me, I'm not going to notice because I can't tell you how many years I skied before I even heard the term "summer wax". So I'm thinking that if I actually get them waxed in the spring, even just a regular wax, this pair will probably be better off than any other pair I've had.

I never knew I didn't know. Until I came to Pugski!

 

[dbostedo]

What remains to be seen (since Phantom hasn't been around long enough) is how the base survives the environmental exposure over time. Normally an unwaxed base, left to sit for years without any wax protection, will degrade without even using the ski. Although the higher grade bases available these days have improved their durability, all bases are subject to "drying out" if not cared for. I still wonder whether the DPS treatment actually protects a base over time. Does it "nourish and enrich" the base like real wax? I think the answer is already in that it does not. So if that's the case, what does that mean for long-term health of the ski base for skis that only use the DPS Phantom treatment?

Do you have any reference for what degradation of the bases actually means? Other than a color change, I've struck out trying to find any reference to the issues caused by a "dried out" base. Does it stop taking wax well? Does it warp? Does it flake off?

 

[Noodler]

Do you have any reference for what degradation of the bases actually means? Other than a color change, I've struck out trying to find any reference to the issues caused by a "dried out" base. Does it stop taking wax well? Does it warp? Does it flake off?

I'm really not sure other than the color change making it look dried out. I've never investigated this issue deeply because I always kept my skis waxed for the most part. There were a few "ugly step kids" that didn't get the love and their bases showed it.

If Phantom kept a ski looking like it was always freshly waxed I don't think there would be anyone questioning it or expressing the concern I have. However, I asked the question earlier in this thread and Phil confirmed that Phantom does not look like a waxed ski on the bases. So that has me calling into question what we're really getting. If it maintains the life of the base and provides the reduction in friction, then great. I'm just not sure if we really know how "healthy" Phantom is keeping a ski base.

 

[Andy Mink]

I'm really not sure other than the color change making it look dried out. I've never investigated this issue deeply because I always kept my skis waxed for the most part. There were a few "ugly step kids" that didn't get the love and their bases showed it.

I've seen skis that have sat out in the weather for a while. The bases just start to disintegrate, flaking and peeling. Those skis were used as fence posts so outside in heat, cold, snow, rain, smoke, everything. And it still takes a while for it to happen.

 

[Noodler]

I've seen skis that have sat out in the weather for a while. The bases just start to disintegrate, flaking and peeling. Those skis were used as fence posts so outside in heat, cold, snow, rain, smoke, everything. And it still takes a while for it to happen.

Like I said, it's just a big unknown. It may be absolutely fine and be more than sufficient for the life of the ski. I just want to see where it's at a couple more years down the line before I even consider making the investment.

 

[dbostedo]

It may be absolutely fine and be more than sufficient for the life of the ski.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was wondering. Some people seem to get kind of freaked out if bases don't look freshly waxed.... but as someone who usually only gets their skis waxed at the start of the season ( ) I've been trying to figure out what actual damage might occur. FWIW, I keep them inside my condo, so climate controlled, and I've barely ever even seen any graying. So, personally, for me, things like summer storage wax seem like a lot of overkill.

And I've been wondering how Phantom is in that regard.

 

[Jacques]

Wow Jacques. You really really don’t like Phantom...
It‘s not your cup of tea. I do get it. But it’s honestly a good product for anyone who doesn’t want to deal with wax... Personally, I’m an advanced skier and I still would rather use Phantom then deal with waxing, not to mention the lessened environmental impact compared to wax

For what it cost one would be well served to use a no iron wax. There are a multitude of them from top wax makers.
BTW have you seen the list of chemicals in Phantom?
I won't be using it, but as I have stated several times, for those who want so so performance without waxing it's just what their doctor ordered!

 

[pchewn]

I will agree with @Jacques that Phantom at $150 per pair of skis is probably not worth it compared to wax. Which is why I treated 3 pairs for $99 by applying it myself and making sure that the excess was not dripping off the ski onto my deck.

At $33 per pair of skis, I'm happy enough with the performance and convenience.

I'm a bit disappointed that DPS is charging so much for the product, and the shops charging so much for the treatment. It doesn't have to be that way.

 

[dbostedo]

It doesn't have to be that way.

No, but like any business they'll charge what the can to maximize revenue. If enough people hate waxing, or taking their skis in to be waxed, or buy in on the environmental benefits, then the price will stay high. Especially since there isn't strong competition. (There are competing products, but none seem to be making the headway that Phantom is.)

 

[trailtrimmer]

After skiing with and tuning skis for a person with a Phantom treatment for the past year, I can totally see that it works, but only works well in a certain temperature envelope.

Above 20 degree snow temps, works fine. Not the best glide, but not a dry ski.
In the teens and single digits to negatives, it's marginal, base burn isn't bad, but a little creeps in at super cold temps.

A couple waxes a year with a cold/mid temp mix of wax really perks them up and provides protection.

It's a nice option to have applied for those that neglect their stuff, but doing one or two waxes a season on top of Phantom is a nice one-two punch. It's still pretty spendy for what you get.

 

[Jacques]

I will agree with @Jacques that Phantom at $150 per pair of skis is probably not worth it compared to wax. Which is why I treated 3 pairs for $99 by applying it myself and making sure that the excess was not dripping off the ski onto my deck.

At $33 per pair of skis, I'm happy enough with the performance and convenience.

I'm a bit disappointed that DPS is charging so much for the product, and the shops charging so much for the treatment. It doesn't have to be that way.

You will be a good tester for us here. We want a monthly update on performance and days skied with a given pair.
Problem is performance glide is a subjective thing. It's like if one never drove a super fast sports car, it's hard to compare to a Corolla.
Edit: No waxing allowed and to include photos of the base.

 

[Jacques]

After skiing with a tuning skis for a person with a Phantom treatment for the past year, I can totally see that it works, but only works well in a certain temperature envelope.

Above 20 degree snow temps, works fine. Not the best glide, but not a dry ski.
In the teens and single digits to negatives, it's marginal, base burn isn't bad, but a little creeps in at super cold temps.

A couple waxes a year with a cold/mid temp mix of wax really perks them up and provides protection.

It's a nice option to have applied for those that neglect their stuff, but doing one or two waxes a season on top of Phantom is a nice one-two punch. It's still pretty spendy for what you get.

If wax "really perks them up", then that should tell one something.
The whole claim and idea is NO waxing needed.
Funny thing is although a base will burn, usually an un-waxed base will run pretty well in those "teens".
Given the Phantomed base has no wax on it one would think it should run well in those "teens"
When the snow gets cold I break out the Dominator Bullet. Base will run and no burn assuming one knows how to apply.

 

[trailtrimmer]

Problem is performance glide is a subjective thing. It's like if one never drove a super fast sports car, it's hard to compare to a Corolla.

Testing in a race course is futile. However it's super easy to tell on cat tracks, lift lines, etc.

A 90 mm wide all mountain ski with decent base structure and wax will outrun a 68mm wide race ski with little structure and and no wax on the flat stuff.

 

[trailtrimmer]

If wax "really perks them up", then that should tell one something.

My buddy asked what I did to them. "I actually waxed them instead of just hitting the edges", "They are flying"

That was plain old Holmenkol red on a 29 degree damp day.