Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment

[Jim McDonald]

Forget the Phantom, I'd be asking that shop for a new pair of skis! Can't be much left of base/edges after 15 grinds.

 

[dbostedo]

Forget the Phantom, I'd be asking that shop for a new pair of skis! Can't be much left of base/edges after 15 grinds.

Somewhere else on here, people were talking about base thickness and how much gets taken off by a grind. The consensus seemed to be that skis can last through 50 or more grinds... No idea my self, but some people were tossing out numbers in the 100's depending on how they were ground.

 

[Jim McDonald]

"aggressive structure" + "messed up" = probably far more erosion of material than a "normal" base grind would cause, and then there's the "no more Phantom" which hints at a lot of base gone (even if you discount the claim that P fully permeates the base)

 

[Jacques]

So being I am excited for ski season, I took our skis to a shop recommended to me by a top ski rep as the best around. He said one pair needed some work, and both needed wax. I told him both were treated with Phantom and he said then you are good to go!

I then asked him his opinion of the DPS Phantom and he said he and a buddy did an experiment. He Phantomized his skis, and he waxed his buddies with a universal temperature wax, then they hit a slope and glided.... He says he out glided his buddies freshly waxed skis. He is a believer.

We hear this a lot. To many variables in wax vs snow conditions and how good of a wax job it was. What brand of "universal" wax. Base structure etc. ...............on and on.
If you like the stuff great, but it can't beat good proper waxing. Good proper waxing takes a lot of time and money though. If you can't wax your own skis and have not the time or experience, then that stuff might be just the ticket for you and many others.

 

[ScottB]

If you like the stuff great, but it can't beat good proper waxing. Good proper waxing takes a lot of time and money though. If you can't wax your own skis and have not the time or experience, then that stuff might be just the ticket for you and many others.

I have a lot of experience with Phantom over 2 seasons now on half a dozen skis. DPS has never claimed Phantom is faster than wax, although they did make a chart comparing Phantom to "a proper waxed ski" for different snow conditions or temperatures. they claim it is similar in some conditions and a bit slower in other conditions. My experience agrees with their claims very well. I have a race ski and a powder ski that I only use wax on. In certain conditions the wax feels more slippery and faster than a Phantom'd ski. I have skied two pairs of skis back to back on the same day to prove this to myself. The Phantom skis don't feel slow, just not as fast as the skis with the wax that is matched for the conditions. Other times with different snow conditions, the Phantom and wax felt the same. And this is my subjective opinion or "feel", I don't have any timed runs that would be real data. So what I have done is use Phantom on all my non-race skis, and anything I will run in a course I use wax. I also put Phantom on the race ski that I use for coaching regularly, so I can be lazy about waxing and I never have the "wrong wax" which is really noticeable and puts a damper on the day. When it gets really cold, all temp waxes are too soft and get sticky. If you don't put a very hard cold temp wax on, you will have really sticky skis. That doesn't happen with Phantom, or at least not nearly to the same degree. I have also waxed over Phantom in certain situations, and it works fine. Once the wax wears off, you are back to the Phantom level of glide. I did this on a really warm wet day when I put Dominator Butter wax on my Phantomed skis, which helped.

 

[pliny the elder]

I also use Phantom on my non race skis. I generally wax over it and with the exception of warm spring conditions, the free skis live on a steady diet of CH7.

My experience has been that the skis feel slow from a standstill, but do better as you start moving. The faster you go the faster they feel. This has been consistent regardless of temperature.

I especially like it on skis that travel where I cannot keep my normal maintenance routine. This has been the best aspect of the product for me. The skis will maintain an acceptable glide when neglected.

pliny the elder

 

[Philpug]

I also use Phantom on my non race skis. I generally wax over it and with the exception of warm spring conditions, the free skis live on a steady diet of CH7.

My experience has been that the skis feel slow from a standstill, but do better as you start moving. The faster you go the faster they feel. This has been consistent regardless of temperature.

I especially like it on skis that travel where I cannot keep my normal maintenance routine. This has been the best aspect of the product for me. The skis will maintain an acceptable glide when neglected.

pliny the elder

Funny, warm weather is the time I DO wax over it. But I agree with all of your other points.

 

[pliny the elder]

Funny, warm weather is the time I DO wax over it. But I agree with all of your other points.

In spring conditions, I wax with warmer waxes than CH7, I misspoke.

pliny the e

 

[dovski]

Probably too late now but I think I'd be asking the shop that screwed up for $100 for the Phantom. Did you know it was gone because of a performance difference?

I had them tuned on vacation. Shop gave me a good deal but rushed to do them last minute, did not realize the issue until a few weeks later, at which time I had them properly tuned. It was after that I felt the difference.

 

[dovski]

Forget the Phantom, I'd be asking that shop for a new pair of skis! Can't be much left of base/edges after 15 grinds.

My solution was to get some SR95s this year

 

[dovski]

Funny, warm weather is the time I DO wax over it. But I agree with all of your other points.

What makes Phantom work is the fact that it is Hydrophobic. Once your skis start moving they melt snow and that is when phantom kicks in. If you have an aggressive structure phantom performs even better. It also performs better in warmer conditions

 

[GregK]

Don’t have experience with “how deep” the Phantom penetrates the surface but people are mixing of “number of passes” for “grinds”.

With every base grind, the tech will run some passes to flatten the ski then some more passes to add structure the ski. A grind can be from just a few passes to 20 or more if the base is really edge high or if the structure was a super deep wet Spring structure that now needs to be flattened. So the ski has only had one “grind” that just took more passes than normal. I posted a link to a place that did 250 “passes” to a snowboard and still had base left.

Sounds like in @dovski case, it was a deep structure that then needed lots of flattening first and a lighter structure applied after.

If I had a guess, I’m sure the Phantom would last for a few passes than be removed. You might still have some Phantom on the ski if it was a “touch up” grind but gone if lots of passes were needed.

 

[dovski]

Don’t have experience with “how deep” the Phantom penetrates the surface but people are mixing of “number of passes” for “grinds”.

With every base grind, the tech will run some passes to flatten the ski then some more passes to add structure the ski. A grind can be from just a few passes to 20 or more if the base is really edge high or if the structure was a super deep wet Spring structure that now needs to be flattened. So the ski has only had one “grind” that just took more passes than normal. I posted a link to a place that did 250 “passes” to a snowboard and still had base left.

Sounds like in @dovski case, it was a deep structure that then needed lots of flattening first and a lighter structure applied after.

If I had a guess, I’m sure the Phantom would last for a few passes than be removed. You might still have some Phantom on the ski if it was a “touch up” grind but gone if lots of passes were needed.

Your assumption is correct sir. They put on a deep aggressive structure, which works great with the phantom but in the process they messed up the ski. From now on I will not have my skis tuned at shops that have the hand fed grinder, I know there are some folks who have mastered that art but there are a lot more novices that have not.

 

[Popeye Cahn]

A quick update: I Phantom’d the skis this past Saturday. I had wanted to on the prior Saturday but things got in the way and it was overcast on Sunday so I held off. I almost put off doing this today because of partial clouds earlier in the morning but said to heck with it as things improved enough to gain my confidence.

I cleaned the bases, then brushed them out and then let them warm up in the sun before the Phantom. My improvised work bench consisted of 2 patio chairs with pool noodles and a tarp. Later on I moved to a milk crate for the curing area. Part A went on easily enough and cured well after an hour, it had a matte look when cured. I brushed that out and wiped it down and then applied part B. That was a bit more finicky to get the bases fully wet as part B wanted to recede from some areas. I kept after it and massaged it to keep the bases fully wet during the soak period prior to curing. I gave both parts extra time in the sun for curing just to be sure even though the sun was strong. Part B cured with a bit of a glossy finish even though it was dry to the touch. I brushed that out, wiped them down and then corked them for good measure.

I started this around 10 and was done by 1:30ish. At one point the neighbor kids came by to see if my youngest wanted to play and having left the skis out in the carport I was concerned that one of them might get too close so I shooed them away and placed some chairs around the skis to act as a barrier. Crisis averted.

All in all the application was very reasonable and I wouldn’t hesitate to use the product again and apply it myself as it was super simple. The test will come soon enough and I have a good feeling that the product will suit me fine. I do get why some are inclined to wax their own skis, it brings you closer to the elements or the sport and you become one with them plus the satisfaction of learning and knowing an art. For now though this will be as close as I get, my main focus over the next couple of seasons is to improve my technique and skill. And I have a long piste to groom in that regard…

 

[dovski]

A quick update: I Phantom’d the skis this past Saturday. I had wanted to on the prior Saturday but things got in the way and it was overcast on Sunday so I held off. I almost put off doing this today because of partial clouds earlier in the morning but said to heck with it as things improved enough to gain my confidence.

I cleaned the bases, then brushed them out and then let them warm up in the sun before the Phantom. My improvised work bench consisted of 2 patio chairs with pool noodles and a tarp. Later on I moved to a milk crate for the curing area. Part A went on easily enough and cured well after an hour, it had a matte look when cured. I brushed that out and wiped it down and then applied part B. That was a bit more finicky to get the bases fully wet as part B wanted to recede from some areas. I kept after it and massaged it to keep the bases fully wet during the soak period prior to curing. I gave both parts extra time in the sun for curing just to be sure even though the sun was strong. Part B cured with a bit of a glossy finish even though it was dry to the touch. I brushed that out, wiped them down and then corked them for good measure.

I started this around 10 and was done by 1:30ish. At one point the neighbor kids came by to see if my youngest wanted to play and having left the skis out in the carport I was concerned that one of them might get too close so I shooed them away and placed some chairs around the skis to act as a barrier. Crisis averted.

All in all the application was very reasonable and I wouldn’t hesitate to use the product again and apply it myself as it was super simple. The test will come soon enough and I have a good feeling that the product will suit me fine. I do get why some are inclined to wax their own skis, it brings you closer to the elements or the sport and you become one with them plus the satisfaction of learning and knowing an art. For now though this will be as close as I get, my main focus over the next couple of seasons is to improve my technique and skill. And I have a long piste to groom in that regard…

Did you skis have a fresh grind or did you just clean and brush the bases? I did a lot of experiment two years back and found that if you do it yourself you really need a grind the bases first to get proper penetration. Will be interested in hearing how this works for you.

 

[Popeye Cahn]

Did you skis have a fresh grind or did you just clean and brush the bases? I did a lot of experiment two years back and found that if you do it yourself you really need a grind the bases first to get proper penetration. Will be interested in hearing how this works for you.

Yeah they had whatever factory wax Atomic uses, but I cleaned them twice for good measure. Since this was the "Better" prep that DPS suggested and I had read somewhere that factory fresh bases didn't really require a grind as most skis leave the factory with just a basic preservative wax, I figured this would be fine but I'll definitely report back throughout the season.

 

[Popeye Cahn]

Today I was informed by an REI employee here in San Diego that they will be receiving a curing station in the next 2 weeks. I had dropped in to have the bindings set and asked them to detune the ends, they were in awe that I DIY'd the Phantom, it was nice to not feel like a complete newb for a change lol

Also REI is now renting skis for the season, so I bagged the grom some new gear at a savings before the price goes up on Monday.

 

[Mike King]

Aspen has gone Phantom.

https://www.aspentimes.com/news/loc...e-saying-goodbye-to-ski-wax-hello-to-phantom/

 

[socalgal]

Wow!

 

[MissySki]

I had Phantom applied to my daily drivers (Blizzard Sheeva 9) this fall, looking forward to trying them out this season once rock ski time passes!