How to increase your edge angle?

[Noodler]

Smooth, I like his style& skills.

Video doesn't do this skiing justice. Seeing it live and up close really puts it into perspective of how much of a higher level this skiing is. The speed carried down the slope in those off-piste clips is mind blowing when experienced live and note that he's not straight-lining it; he's performing serious technical skiing in quite challenging cut-up conditions and in total control of his descent speed and the turn radii.

 

[slowrider]

Same as the steeps don't show from a camera. I've taken pics of construction roads that were 50% grades and they look like your driveway.

 

[Fuller]

The Carv YouTube video (the actual subject at hand) features some interesting commentary from he who cannot be named. Or maybe he can be named now, I haven't kept up with HH's place in the hierarchy lately. Anyway he puts a lot of energy into it.

 

[CoPow]

He missed one thing. Use SL skies on a soft, "amazingly prepared" groomed run :p Seriously, that's the most important part.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Leg strength is the most restricting factor in achieving increased edge angles once you have the technique dialed in. If you have the speed and the edge angles to get your hip on the snow, you must have good leg strength.

 

[razie]

He missed one thing. Use SL skies on a soft, "amazingly prepared" groomed run :p Seriously, that's the most important part.

hero snow helps, especially in the beginning.

on steeper slopes though it has limitations - it won't hold well to the "shearing" forces applied I guess and you end up drifting a bit... which in itself is an interesting threshold. Speaking from my own experience and from teaching many others, one big threshold towards big angles is when you have to let go of that solid carving feeling of a blue/advanced skier and progress to the big angles, where it starts to feel very different - the top of the turn always feels less definite and that's why also brushing vs carving becomes a pointless discussion at some angles and why most experts are like "carve, brush, whatever" at that point.

- this is why I was saying that the guy's drills will help at a lower level, they do nothing to get one familiar with the top of the turn feeling at the really big angles - I don't think he got there himself... while the JFB video is specifically about that and the soft touch he's talking about does lead directly to losing that firm pressure feeling... and that's the first step towards really big angles.

on steeper slopes, we'll prefer hard snow.

Also, once you dial it in, it's not a big issue to ski in "bad" snow either. Visibility matters more, so you can plan your line and apex in the right place. Yesterday we had some fresh with a good base, but that meant 6-10 inch random piles - and it wasn't a big deal. You need to keep a more relaxed approach to the outside leg, to be able to absorb when your line is off - here good skis matter, like a 85-90 underfoot and a bit of tip rocker with a lot of metal in the body of the ski - I was on Monster 88s which were good for that stuff... and, before you ask, those can bend in SL turns easily at big angles...

... it would be harder to ski fast and big turns in heavy 3D snow, as you'll hit piles under pressure - that's what you see Greg doing in that CO video - with SL turns, the "pressure" is narrow and you can plan your line better... at the same time, deeper soft snow doesn't hold up to a SL turn, so those are the things that dictate your limits...

 

[François Pugh]

The two things that helped me the most when I was learning how to increase my edge angle were proper inside leg and hip positioning so that my inside knee and hip were not blocking me and using momentum with a sudden flex to release transition at speed to get right into the new turn with a big angle.

The thing that hurt the most was the concussion as a result of boot out on a hard surface due to my extremely wide ball of foot and narrow skis.

 

[crgildart]

Thing that helps me most coming from the old school is remembering that it's now OK and preferred to drop my inside hand down and out a little, even touching down. Took a long time to start to feel comfortable breaking out of the robotic upper body position, hands up and out front ALL THE TIME mode.

 

[slowrider]

Just don't over think all that's going on. Let the angles build and by all means have fun.

 

[LiquidFeet]

@Mateospelayo, in answer to your thread title, you might want to check out the posts by mike_m in the thread linked below. (Has someone directed the OP here already?) Mike-m describes drills and focuses specifically designed to help skiers increase edge angles without screwing up the turn.

New Zealand Advanced Training takeaways, 2019

As some of you know, I travel to New Zealand every August to participate in the Rookie Academy Advanced Ski Training program. In existence since the 1990s, the Rookies were formed to help aspiring instructors from around the world gain the skills to attain certification. It later expanded to...

www.pugski.com

 

[Mateospelayo]

@Mateospelayo, in answer to your thread title, you might want to check out the posts by mike_m in the thread linked below. (Has someone directed the OP here already?) Mike-m describes drills and focuses specifically designed to help skiers increase edge angles without screwing up the turn.

New Zealand Advanced Training takeaways, 2019

As some of you know, I travel to New Zealand every August to participate in the Rookie Academy Advanced Ski Training program. In existence since the 1990s, the Rookies were formed to help aspiring instructors from around the world gain the skills to attain certification. It later expanded to...

www.pugski.com

Really helpful! Thanks a lot for the info!!
Will try it next weekend.

 

[geepers]

Do you want to make your point more clearly?

More clearly.... Ok. Would you stop being so hard on us who are still only achieving ordinary angles.

Still having fun even if we'll never get our hips anywhere near the snow. Can get a little bit closer before zimmerframe time.

What does skiing bumps have to do with big angles?

Nothing. Which is why I wrote "thread drift". Just curious to see how that technique plays out in bumps.

 

[razie]

you got good company there - I'm very far from where I'd like to be, someone here said it best recently: the more you know, the more you realize what you don't know... same in skiing: the better you ski, the more you understand how far you are from those that ski better... and the harder it becomes to cross that last bridge, only to realize you're on a new path... with more bridges ahead of you... that's why my website stops at the "expert level" because the rest up from there, in pursuit of technical perfection, is pain an misery... and it gets too technical to easily convey in writing...

 

[WadeHoliday]

Video doesn't do this skiing justice. Seeing it live and up close really puts it into perspective of how much of a higher level this skiing is. The speed carried down the slope in those off-piste clips is mind blowing when experienced live and note that he's not straight-lining it; he's performing serious technical skiing in quite challenging cut-up conditions and in total control of his descent speed and the turn radii.

Good thoughts in this thread, and some fun video!

Noodler,
the one video that I'm not seeing what your seeing is the one of Greg (is that helluvaskier) in those off piste clips. For me, his on-piste skiing shows great dynamics, pressure and edge angle building throughout, nice ground force reaction and forces out of it, while the off piste lacks that building of angle/pressure/energy dynamics in most turns to my eye. It's obvious he's skiing fast, and makes sense why, he's almost quitting on them before the energy can build because he doesn't think the ski or his legs or the snow can deal with the pressure.
which brings me to another thought after reading this thread...

The energy from those super high edge angle turns takes not just great technique, but strength and commitment in my opinion. Skiing is about sensations and as Razie said, those skiers can get addicted to those sensations, but that isn't the only aspect of skiing that can be super fun and addictive...

Of these videos, the PSP video is the most approachable high edge angle carving, great snow, moderate pitch, great dynamics but forces and timing that can be approached by most imo.

Also, I agree that JF's gravity drop idea and teaching is great for getting a little more commitment out of less strong or aggressive skiers. Way better progression then the thread starter video...

Cheers!
W

 

[mike_m]

Ah, the annual "How to Carve" thread!

Two important points have been neglected in all the posts to this point: If the outside, stance leg is relatively soft, high edge angles are easier to achieve. Many skiers understand "Direct pressure to the outside foot" to mean "Brace against it." Just the opposite. Watch any of the above videos and you'll see the skier's outside foot and leg are quite supple, allowing the shortening and pulled-open inside thigh to tip lower toward the snow.

Also: A good task to help achieve high early edge angles is to try to trace scooped "figure 8s" in the snow with the bottoms of your skis. This will require supple ankles in continuous activity. The skis will be rolled over completely before starting downhill. The sensation will be similar to that of a tipped-over bobsled riding up against the banking. The transition occurs in the "point" of the figure 8, so no traverse or "park and ride" is possible.

Here's another fun video with an interesting perspective:


Best!
Mike

 

[Noodler]

Ah, the annual "How to Carve" thread!

Two important points have been neglected in all the posts to this point: If the outside, stance leg is relatively soft, high edge angles are easier to achieve. Many skiers understand "Direct pressure to the outside foot" to mean "Brace against it." Just the opposite. Watch any of the above videos and you'll see the skier's outside foot and leg are quite supple, allowing the shortening and pulled-open inside thigh to tip lower toward the snow.

Also: A good task to help achieve high early edge angles is to try to trace scooped "figure 8s" in the snow with the bottoms of your skis. This will require supple ankles in continuous activity. The skis will be rolled over completely before starting downhill. The sensation will be similar to that of a tipped-over bobsled riding up against the banking. The transition occurs in the "point" of the figure 8, so no traverse or "park and ride" is possible.

Here's another fun video with an interesting perspective:


Best!
Mike

Your new "tutelage" is showing. We really need to get out and ski together again.

 

[Noodler]

Good thoughts in this thread, and some fun video!

Noodler,
the one video that I'm not seeing what your seeing is the one of Greg (is that helluvaskier) in those off piste clips. For me, his on-piste skiing shows great dynamics, pressure and edge angle building throughout, nice ground force reaction and forces out of it, while the off piste lacks that building of angle/pressure/energy dynamics in most turns to my eye. It's obvious he's skiing fast, and makes sense why, he's almost quitting on them before the energy can build because he doesn't think the ski or his legs or the snow can deal with the pressure.
which brings me to another thought after reading this thread...

The energy from those super high edge angle turns takes not just great technique, but strength and commitment in my opinion. Skiing is about sensations and as Razie said, those skiers can get addicted to those sensations, but that isn't the only aspect of skiing that can be super fun and addictive...

Of these videos, the PSP video is the most approachable high edge angle carving, great snow, moderate pitch, great dynamics but forces and timing that can be approached by most imo.

Also, I agree that JF's gravity drop idea and teaching is great for getting a little more commitment out of less strong or aggressive skiers. Way better progression then the thread starter video...

Cheers!
W

We always must keep in mind that when we view videos of skiing, we're not usually aware of the intent of the skier. I don't necessarily agree with your take on the off-piste skiing, but nevertheless, I do know that if you provided Greg with specific goals/tasks for a particular run, he has the skills to fulfill the request.

 

[razie]

We always must keep in mind that when we view videos of skiing, we're not usually aware of the intent of the skier. I don't necessarily agree with your take on the off-piste skiing, but nevertheless, I do know that if you provided Greg with specific goals/tasks for a particular run, he has the skills to fulfill the request.

Oh no you didn't... I don't think he's a good "Simon says" player... he might ask "Simon" to do it as well...

 

[Josh Matta]

I want to see Greg ski Goat or any woods run of my choice.

 

[Noodler]

Oh no you didn't... but I don't think he's a good "Simon says" player... he might ask "Simon" to do it as well...

Yep, it's not just "Simon says", but it must be followed by "Simon does".