Ken_R

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@Mike Thomas ,

What about the Pivot 12 and 14? Same binding with a lower spring rate and there is a $50 difference between these two. The benefit for Look goes back to the original post, they would sell more. Shops that do not stock the 18 because of the 8-18 would be more likely to stock a 6-15. A Pivot 15 at $339-359 is line with wht Marker, Tyrolia and Salomon are selling their offerings for and people are buying them. The same people that will wait for a deal on these are the same people who wait fora deal anywhere else but these people are also not buying Pivot 18's.
Given that I use a DIN of 9~9.5 you think the Pivot 18's are a good choice for someone like me?
 

Bill Talbot

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epic... if LOOK builds us some Pivot 15's, I will do the same thing that I always do, hunt for the very best possible price to buy them.


#bringbackthepivot15
 

Mike Thomas

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Phil, saying Look should charge less for the 15 because it's more desirable to more people than the 18? You're a better salesman than that.

If you want to get the P15 made explain how premium ski resorts, premium ski brands and premium clothing might not have high volume but there is real demand there. It's where skiing (unfortunately) has gone and it doesn't seem like it is in any hurry to come back. The P15, in fashion colors (black, black chrome and... black), could be Look's premium binding. I think they could sell a few hundred at an eye-watering price... or a few hundred at $339.

Honestly, I think the weight of the binding will make it a non-starter. The P18 is a tank, a fully loaded tank. A really, really heavy tank. It's a freakin' heavy binding is what I am getting at. The P15 will weigh the exact same thing... but non-athletes would be the target customer. That's not good.

Questions customers ask about ski bindings:

What binding will work for me?
How much?
.
.
Should I put a touring binding on it?
.
.
.
What binding is lightest?
.
Does it come in black?
.
.
.
Is it safe?
Is there a safer binding choice?
OK, is there a safer binding that isn't as ugly as Kneebinding?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Is it durable?

Pretty much in that exact order. The P15 wins 'durable'... which is counteracted with "they all have a 5 year warranty"

(this is coming from someone who skis nothing but Pivots. I love the binding, but don't see where it makes sense in a retail setting along side the P12, P14 and P18.)
 
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Bill Talbot

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for myself the weight is a GOOD thing. This means it will be durable and last my minimum of 20 years of service :)

(oh, and I don't know how you guys can work retail in the ski business!!!)
 
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Philpug

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Phil, saying Look should charge less for the 15 because it's more desirable to more people than the 18? You're a better salesman than that.

(this is coming from someone who skis nothing but Pivots. I love the binding, but don't see where it makes sense in a retail setting along side the P12, P14 and P18.)
They should charge less because it will fit into the pricing hierarchy, the same way a 120 flex boot is less than a 130 flex even though they are made of the same materials. I am not saying it is right, just they way of the ski industry. Yes, they might only sell a few hundred 15's but that is better than the few dozen 18's they are currently selling.
 

ARL67

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^^^ .... since Phil mentioned boots, one of my beefs on the boot hierarchy is that the stiffest boots have the best features. Why can't I get a 80-90-100 flex boot with 4 buckles, the wider power strap, maybe more cuff adjustment, lean adjustment, and the best liner in the lineup ? Softer boots are generally missing features, or have inferior features, compared to the 130 boot in the lineup.
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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^^^ .... since Phil mentioned boots, one of my beefs on the boot hierarchy is that the stiffest boots have the best features. Why can't I get a 80-90-100 flex boot with 4 buckles, the wider power strap, maybe more cuff adjustment, lean adjustment, and the best liner in the lineup ? Softer boots are generally missing features, or have inferior features, compared to the 130 boot in the lineup.
Read my Boots By The Numbers series, I talk about it there too.
 

CalG

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Read my Boots By The Numbers series, I talk about it there too.
I just got a box from Backcountry .com FILLED with Pivot 12 Duals. Since my "age" suggests a tension setting of 8 or less , these are ideal. ('have not skied out all season!)

The green color so clashes with the Lupo ti boots and Elan 777 top sheet, that I might just start a "it's not not easy to be green" movement!
 

Wendy

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I've got Pivots on all my skis except for my SL's, obviously. Two pairs of 12's and one pair of 14's. My DIN is 8 so I'm fine on 12's. Besides weight, I can't tell the difference between the 2 when skiing, or the difference in feel between the WTR and non-WTR, but I don't have the experience of @Philpug . I do get the durability argument, though.

Pivots are my binding of choice and I won't get anything else. I just like how they work and how they feel.

I do have a pair of 115mm brakes for Pivots if anyone is interested. :)
 
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Philpug

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I've got Pivots on all my skis except for my SL's, obviously. Two pairs of 12's and one pair of 14's. My DIN is 8 so I'm fine on 12's. Besides weight, I can't tell the difference between the 2 when skiing, or the difference in feel between the WTR and non-WTR, but I don't have the experience of @Philpug . I do get the durability argument, though.

Pivots are my binding of choice and I won't get anything else. I just like how they work and how they feel.

I do have a pair of 115mm brakes for Pivots if anyone is interested. :)
The 12's and 14's you have are essentially the same binding other than the spring, so there is no weight difference there. The weight difference between the 12/14 and the 15/18is less than you would think. What you will feel is a more solid interface and more of a connect especially on hard snow condtion, a one with the ski.
 

oldschoolskier

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I have skied the px14 and currently ski the px15's which is the same toe piece as the respective pivots, the difference in the feel of the toes and how the hold and release at the same DIN setting is substantial. The 14's and below have a completely different release mechanism compared to the 15's and up.

My best description would be the 14's and below flex and release abruptly at a give point, the 15's and above continue to flex progressively until you slip out so a chance of recovery is possible to the last moment.

There used to be a good video of this but it has been removed.

As to the heels, haven't skied the Pivots heels so no useful or meaningful comments can be added here.
 
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jmeb

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I have skied the px14 and currently ski the px15's which is the same toe piece, I'll the difference in the feel of the toes and how the hold and release at the same DIN setting is substantial. The 14's and below have a completely different release mechanism compared to the 15's and up.
....
Confusing wording here...aren't the PX15s the single-piece toe a la the P15/P18, the the PX14s are the multi-piece toe a la P12/14? So when you say same toe piece, do you mean PX15 is same as Pivot 15?
 
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Philpug

Philpug

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I have skied the px14 and currently ski the px15's which is the same toe piece, I'll the difference in the feel of the toes and how the hold and release at the same DIN setting is substantial. The 14's and below have a completely different release mechanism compared to the 15's and up.
Confusing wording here...aren't the PX15s the single-piece toe a la the P15/P18, the the PX14s are the multi-piece toe a la P12/14?
Correct, the 14 and 15 are different toes.
 

Bill Talbot

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LOOK...
I'm not going away! Still here, still want my PIVOT 15's back on the market :wave:

How about a run of 100 pairs for market analysis? We here @ Pugski would give you some great exposure on the internet and on the slopes, experienced feedback and stimulate market demand...
2018 feels like the 'Year of the PIVOT' to me..... make it happen :D

#bringbackthe15
 

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