eBike Electric MTB---Wow!

[scott43]

So glad we could take a mostly green sport and infuse the use of hydrocarbons again.

I dig e-bikes for commuting and making a five mile ride feel like a one mile ride, great way to get cars off the road. But if you are a individual in decent health and flip just to make your local trails easier, you are missing the point of a bicycle entirely.

Attaboy!!

 

[scott43]

"If you are an individual in decent health and ride a mountain bike just to make your local trails more fun, you are missing the point of the outdoors entirely."

That's an argument I've heard a lot here in Boulder County, so I'm uncomfortable when anyone formulates an argument about how someone else should enjoy the outdoors.

It's complicated..and common sense should prevail, right? This argument is all over..jet-skis on busy lakes where people want peace and quiet. Equestrians vs hikers vs mountain bikers.. Is 500w ok? What about a gas motor that makes 500w? Let's hope sensible people make it work..

 

[trailtrimmer]

"If you are an individual in decent health and ride a mountain bike just to make your local trails more fun, you are missing the point of the outdoors entirely."

That's an argument I've heard a lot here in Boulder County, so I'm uncomfortable when anyone formulates an argument about how someone else should enjoy the outdoors.

I enjoy the outdoors skiing, biking, walking, camping, hunting, on an ATV, etc. The outdoors is different things to different people.

I'm fine with ebikes on firm soils and rocky trail beds on low use trail systems. But having put in hundreds of hours working on trails and trail advocacy, I'm totally against them on heavily used systems with soils that don't hold up well and lots of users of mixed abilities. More safety incidents and trail bed damage from panic braking newbies that are in over their heads.

Bikes are cool because they are not reliant on a energy source other than what you get out of your legs through training and what you put in your body. Now it's up to battery and motor size.

 

[SShore]

That's an argument I've heard a lot here in Boulder County, so I'm uncomfortable when anyone formulates an argument about how someone else should enjoy the outdoors.

This.

 

[Doug Briggs]

This is definitely a hot topic around here. I think that the problem with e-bikes has a lot more to do with the riders than the equipment. Just like a mt. biker can ride down a hill and not skid into and around corners and preserve the trail OR a mt. biker can bomb down a trail, skidding into and around the turns and demolish a trail.

My concern is that e-bikers get beyond their abilities and endanger themselves and others. I had an e-bike turn erratically in front of me (in my truck) on a steep hill in Breck because they couldn't balance when they couldn't keep up the pace. Using an e-bike to help the infirm and physically challenged access terrain they might not otherwise be able to enjoy while at the same time protecting the trail from inexperience and over-powered equipment is the balance I'm looking for.

Certainly able bodied cyclists are using e-bikes as the video I posted about e-bike racing attests and as long as they use them in places where the impacts of higher speeds and power aren't an issue, power to them! (pun intended)

 

[Doug Briggs]

"If you are an individual in decent health and ride a mountain bike just to make your local trails more fun, you are missing the point of the outdoors entirely."

That's an argument I've heard a lot here in Boulder County, so I'm uncomfortable when anyone formulates an argument about how someone else should enjoy the outdoors.

Exactly. Skiers ostracized snowboarders for years. It wasn't the snowboard, but the snowboarder, that was the issue. Snowboards attracted a particular type of individual that didn't have the same mindset as skiers. Heck, some skiers deprecate skiers for enjoying straight skis, or fat skis or ...

As long as we use trails without damaging the trails or impairing other people's enjoyment, it shouldn't matter whether we're on an e-bike or not.

 

[Doug Briggs]

While digging around, I came across this page: http://www.co.summit.co.us/1185/ebikes which discusses, among other things, the process of legislating e-bike use in Summit County, CO.

This link has a lot of info about e-bikes in CO as well: https://www.bicyclecolorado.org/ride-colorado/rules-of-the-road/

 

[Monique]

I enjoy the outdoors skiing, biking, walking, camping, hunting, on an ATV, etc. The outdoors is different things to different people.

I'm fine with ebikes on firm soils and rocky trail beds on low use trail systems. But having put in hundreds of hours working on trails and trail advocacy, I'm totally against them on heavily used systems with soils that don't hold up well and lots of users of mixed abilities. More safety incidents and trail bed damage from panic braking newbies that are in over their heads.

Bikes are cool because they are not reliant on a energy source other than what you get out of your legs through training and what you put in your body. Now it's up to battery and motor size.

I sort of understand your argument that e-bikes riders are panic braking, but honestly, that's an argument against any newbie mountain biker on the trail, as well as a number of experienced mountain bikers that either don't know or don't care about trail damage. And education is a big part of the answer - not just the obvious, but also technique. Newbie riders are often taught, or train themselves, not to use their front brake at all because of the risk of an endo. Skid city, and many people never grow out of this bad habit. Proper feathering and use of both brakes would go a long way to reducing skids, I suspect. And it's a nice synergy of being good for both riders and the trail.

Exactly. Skiers ostracized snowboarders for years. It wasn't the snowboard, but the snowboarder, that was the issue. Snowboards attracted a particular type of individual that didn't have the same mindset as skiers. Heck, some skiers deprecate skiers for enjoying straight skis, or fat skis or ...

I admit to having a prejudice against snowboards (NB: not snowboarders as people) on groomed runs, simply because they have sight line limitations. I've seen too many close calls and actual collisions because a snowboarder physically cannot see one side of the run except in glimpses. On wide open big mountain lines, totally different story.

 

[newfydog]

[QUOTE="]

Two friends that ride really well in tech stuff tried e-bikes and reported that the sudden surge of power, and more so the abrupt cessation of power, made for a lousy experience.

[/QUOTE]

I don't know if the difference is technique, or the smoothness of the Shimano system, but we ride technical stuff better, and often slower than on an old bike. With a bit of extra torque, you can take your time, look at a feature, and go over it, whereas without the assist, you need to bash in with some momentum.

 

[newfydog]

I sort of understand your argument that e-bikes riders are panic braking, but honestly, that's an argument against any newbie mountain biker on the trail, as well as a number of experienced mountain bikers that either don't know or don't care about trail damage.

We have a shop here which is rather anti-ebike. They are affiliated with an outfit that meets at their shop, loads a trailer full of bikes and riders and drives them up to the high country, from where they scream down our trails, many on heavy DH bikes in full pads. Those riders are far, far worse for safety and trail damage than anyone on an ebike.

 

[newfydog]

So glad we could take a mostly green sport and infuse the use of hydrocarbons again.

I dig e-bikes for commuting and making a five mile ride feel like a one mile ride, great way to get cars off the road. But if you are a individual in decent health and flip just to make your local trails easier, you are missing the point of a bicycle entirely.

This from someone who I'll bet rides lifts more than skins up. Nice to know that in 45 years of commuting, racing, and extended XC tours I have entirely missed the point of a bicycle.

The most exciting thing about these bikes to me is all the new opportunities it opens up. Places that were lousy to miserable rides are now good rides. We are riding more, and more places than ever. Just try one before passing judgement.

 

[newfydog]

As for off-road, if I'm grinding up a hill and you have power assist and want trail right of way, go f* yourself!

How "aboot" if they ask in a nice polite Canadian manner if they could pass when there is room?

If someone is walking on a trail, and someone comes up behind them with the mechanical advantage of a bike, should they share the trail?

 

[trailtrimmer]

I sort of understand your argument that e-bikes riders are panic braking, but honestly, that's an argument against any newbie mountain biker on the trail, as well as a number of experienced mountain bikers that either don't know or don't care about trail damage. And education is a big part of the answer - not just the obvious, but also technique.

A newbie rider that instead of making 150 watts is now pushing 400+ with no experience gives them speed their bodies are simply incapable of. Steeper learning curve, more panics at higher speeds.

Also, any electric device can be hacked. Want instant on instead of power progression? Sure! Want to deliver 1000 watts instead of a couple hundred? Parts will start showing up as soon as there is a market, it's no different from cars, motorcycle or buying the latest, lightweight carbon wonderparts for your bicycle. The stage is set for a bike to trail become a motorcycle trail. If you want a motorcycle, buy a motorcycle.

 

[Doug Briggs]

We have a shop here which is rather anti-ebike. They are affiliated with an outfit that meets at their shop, loads a trailer full of bikes and riders and drives them up to the high country, from where they scream down our trails, many on heavy DH bikes in full pads. Those riders are far, far worse for safety and trail damage than anyone on an ebike.

Until the guys on the e-bikes ride up then down at DH speeds.

I do get your point, though. It is respect of the trails, not the gear that really makes the difference. There was an explosion of banit DH trails around the turn of the millenium in Summit County. Fortunately the governments (USFS, town and county) have grabbed the bull by the horns and closed down bandit trails or in some cases adopted them and maintained them. You will easily see 20 - 30 people show up for local trail building/maintenance weekends and upwards of 200 if the VOC (Volunteers for Outdoor Colorado) is involved. It is reassuring that we are building and maintaining a lot more and keeping our trail systems in excellent condition.

 

[Monique]

It is respect of the trails, not the gear that really makes the difference.

QFT.

Fortunately the governments (USFS, town and county) have grabbed the bull by the horns and closed down bandit trails or in some cases adopted them and maintained them.

Does that include Alpine Alley? I wish that were designated downhill only - I did ride up it (a Sysiphean task), but it was really going against the flow, and I worried about the hikers ... not to mention it's really not designed for hikers, with the steep curves etc.

 

[Doug Briggs]

A newbie rider that instead of making 150 watts is now pushing 400+ with no experience gives them speed their bodies are simply incapable of. Steeper learning curve, more panics at higher speeds.

QFT.

As with most new technology and methods, education is absolutely essential for the consumer's safety as well as the protection of the trails and other trail users.

 

[trailtrimmer]

This from someone who I'll bet rides lifts more than skins up. Nice to know that in 45 years of commuting, racing, and extended XC tours I have entirely missed the point of a bicycle.

The most exciting thing about these bikes to me is all the new opportunities it opens up. Places that were lousy to miserable rides are now good rides. We are riding more, and more places than ever. Just try one before passing judgement.

I have tried one, fun for trail work when I'm lugging 25lbs of saw and gear around, but totally unneeded otherwise. I already ride some pretty remote locations on adventures that take all day to complete. I've suffered through 100 mile, 12 and 24 hour mountain bike races, I never once thought I'd rather be on a motorcycle. And unless the batteries can last for 12+ hours, they would become dead weight.

 

[Doug Briggs]

QFT.



Does that include Alpine Alley? I wish that were designated downhill only - I did ride up it (a Sysiphean task), but it was really going against the flow, and I worried about the hikers ... not to mention it's really not designed for hikers, with the steep curves etc.

Aspen Alley was part of the trail system before it was overhauled last year. I agree, it would be good for it to be a one way trail. The way it has been 'enhanced' makes it pretty much a full DH trail but without the large features; fast and furious would describe it nicely.

 

[Monique]

Aspen Alley was part of the trail system before it was overhauled last year. I agree, it would be good for it to be a one way trail. The way it has been 'enhanced' makes it pretty much a full DH trail but without the large features; fast and furious would describe it nicely.

Oops. Would you believe I actually *was* thinking Aspen, even picturing the lovely aspen, but my fingers betrayed me ...?

It was super fun on the downhill, but I didn't feel free to let loose because I knew there were hikers - often oblivious. Somehow I don't think everyone thinks that way.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Consider my friend that has just been diagnosed with dependent atelectasis (in her case minor collapsing of the lungs) and has trouble maintaining an O2 level in the 90s while exercising. She is using an O2 concentrator at home.

Her riding is severely restricted due to this condition. She loves mt. biking and skiing but is having a significantly hard time riding now. She was recently diagnosed and is trying to find solutions to her problem. If she doesn't though, she is a perfect candidate for an e-bike on mt. bike trails. She never was an aggressive rider and wouldn't become one on an e-bike. An e-bike would let her continue to pursue her passion at the athletic level that she can maintain with her hypoxemia. For her it would aid her ability to enjoy the trails, ride a bike and get exercise.