eBike Electric MTB---Wow!

[Doug Briggs]

Oops. Would you believe I actually *was* thinking Aspen, even picturing the lovely aspen, but my fingers betrayed me ...?

It was super fun on the downhill, but I didn't feel free to let loose because I knew there were hikers - often oblivious. Somehow I don't think everyone thinks that way.

Yup. It is pretty hard to let it go when you know there could unpredictably be an obstacle.

 

[newfydog]

I've suffered through 100 mile, 12 and 24 hour mountain bike races, I never once thought I'd rather be on a motorcycle. .

And neither have I. If you want to play the bike hero card, as I type, our bikes are out on the trails. Mine is being ridden by a four time Olympic XC skier. He has done multi-day adventure races 24 hour races you name it. He doesn't need a motor assist - at all- but thinks it is fun. My wifes' bike is being ridden by his 10 year old son, who can keep up with him by using a higher power setting.

 

[scott43]

How "aboot" if they ask in a nice polite Canadian manner if they could pass when there is room?

If someone is walking on a trail, and someone comes up behind them with the mechanical advantage of a bike, should they share the trail?

Well we are generally good at polite so maybe.. Seriously though, if it's a singletrack and hero-e-dude wants you to yield, no way, right? I dismount for pedestrians if there is not enough space. Again, we're Canadian..so that may be unique to here..

 

[scott43]

QFT.

As with most new technology and methods, education is absolutely essential for the consumer's safety as well as the protection of the trails and other trail users.

To be fair..look at the sh*t-show that e-bikes in the city have become.. You can't fix stupid or legislate common sense..

 

[scott43]

As for crashes..meh..if someone wants to goose 500w of electric power and hit a tree, knock yourself out..literally..just don't hit someone else..

 

[Monique]

Yup. It is pretty hard to let it go when you know there could unpredictably be an obstacle.

To be fair, this is always possible due to mechanical failures and injury, even on a DH-only course.

 

[trailtrimmer]

And neither have I. If you want to play the bike hero card, as I type, our bikes are out on the trails. Mine is being ridden by a four time Olympic XC skier. He has done multi-day adventure races 24 hour races you name it. He doesn't need a motor assist - at all- but thinks it is fun. My wifes' bike is being ridden by his 10 year old son, who can keep up with him by using a higher power setting.

You brought up access to remote areas, you can get to some remote areas under human power, just not as quickly. We can train our bodies to ride all day without a battery, we can adapt. We can re-fuel while we ride, a battery can't. Long rides and races have been happening for decades, under human power only.

And your Olympian could buy a $500 used pugsley, moonlander or otherwise heavy chunk of steel and put the 10 year old on something decent and realize that family time doesn't have to be training time. His 10 year old will gain fitness faster and have a hell of a athletic base built up for whatever endeavors he chooses.

They are indeed fun, I can see them for commuting, but it would be nice to have things on this planet that don't require electricity once they are built.

 

[RachelV]

I am honestly a little confused by all the ebike hate. Almost everyone here rides a lift instead of skinning uphill to ski; I realize that that's not analogous to every anti-ebike argument that's been made in this thread, but the whole "being outdoors shouldn't require electricity" / "bikes should be powered by human muscles only" arguments do seem a little odd coming from a bunch of resort skiers.

Personally... I am a mediocre mountain biker. I never ride as much as I mean to to build up a base of fitness to really enjoy some of the bigger local rides. They always feel like a little bit of an ordeal to me -- not because I'm incapable of doing them technically, but because my fitness just never quite gets good enough to enjoy rides longer than 20 miles or so, or with more than ~1000 ft of climbing. But man, with just a little bit of extra power, I would really enjoy them, and probably ride more and get fitter as a result, even if those rides were a bit assisted by a battery.

I don't really plan to get an ebike, but I 100% see the appeal, and I really don't see the issue with allowing class 1 ebikes on the same trails that mtbs are currently allowed on. People who are shitty in the outdoors are gonna be shitty whether they have a battery or not.

 

[SShore]

You brought up access to remote areas, you can get to some remote areas under human power, just not as quickly. We can train our bodies to ride all day without a battery, we can adapt. We can re-fuel while we ride, a battery can't. Long rides and races have been happening for decades, under human power only.

And your Olympian could buy a $500 used pugsley, moonlander or otherwise heavy chunk of steel and put the 10 year old on something decent and realize that family time doesn't have to be training time. His 10 year old will gain fitness faster and have a hell of a athletic base built up for whatever endeavors he chooses.

They are indeed fun, I can see them for commuting, but it would be nice to have things on this planet that don't require electricity once they are built.

So dude, do you skin up before your race down (I assume that is you in the profile picture)? If you don't that lift uses a hell of a lot more carbon than the little battery in the ebike does. Quit imposing your somewhat double standard outdoor moral code on everyone else.

 

[newfydog]

. His 10 year old will gain fitness faster and have a hell of a athletic base built up for whatever endeavors he chooses.

.

Man, the internet is something else. After his time racing, he went into coaching. I watched his athletes take a world championship gold medal, beating the Norwegians in Oslo.

His 10 year old, if he ever wants to "gain fitness", will not need advice from this forum.

You should have seen the ear to ear grins they both came back with!

 

[Philpug]

To paraphrase another member's quote...."My enjoyment of the outdoors and the way I choose to do it is not your concern".

 

[scott43]

To paraphrase another member's quote...."My enjoyment of the outdoors and the way I choose to do it is not your concern".

Yeah, until you hit me with your e-bike then I punch you in the face! All kidding aside, I don't disagree..but let's hope common sense prevails. How many MTB trails get closed because of stupid mountain bikers doing DH on trails that hikers use?

 

[Tricia]

This is definitely a hot topic around here. I think that the problem with e-bikes has a lot more to do with the riders than the equipment. Just like a mt. biker can ride down a hill and not skid into and around corners and preserve the trail OR a mt. biker can bomb down a trail, skidding into and around the turns and demolish a trail.

My concern is that e-bikers get beyond their abilities and endanger themselves and others. I had an e-bike turn erratically in front of me (in my truck) on a steep hill in Breck because they couldn't balance when they couldn't keep up the pace. Using an e-bike to help the infirm and physically challenged access terrain they might not otherwise be able to enjoy while at the same time protecting the trail from inexperience and over-powered equipment is the balance I'm looking for.

Certainly able bodied cyclists are using e-bikes as the video I posted about e-bike racing attests and as long as they use them in places where the impacts of higher speeds and power aren't an issue, power to them! (pun intended)

I'll admit that I enjoyed trying the E-Bike for the bit that I did but I'd have a bit of a learning curve before I'd dare try anything technical. I would hope that others would do the same.

Two friends that ride really well in tech stuff tried e-bikes and reported that the sudden surge of power, and more so the abrupt cessation of power, made for a lousy experience.

I don't know if the difference is technique, or the smoothness of the Shimano system, but we ride technical stuff better, and often slower than on an old bike. With a bit of extra torque, you can take your time, look at a feature, and go over it, whereas without the assist, you need to bash in with some momentum.

From my own personal experience; I've never been a good climber, for whatever reason. But the times when I felt like I climbed successfully I had a down hill prior to the climb and felt like I was on the edge of my skill set for the downhill just to keep up speed for the uphill.
I can imagine, if I had an E-Bike, it would help me maintain a better pace, get exercise, and enjoy trails a little more than I do now. But that's me.

 

[newfydog]

To paraphrase another member's quote...."My enjoyment of the outdoors and the way I choose to do it is not your concern".

The best quote I ever saw on that subject was by an editor for ski magazine, maybe John Fry. In the early 1980's there was a big telemark fad, au natural skiers with ponytails and sturdy leather boots. There was a tele racing circuit in Colorado. John Fry got sick of hearing about how cool, natural and soulful tele skiing (free the heel and free the mind etc) was and proclaimed "This year I refuse to apologize for the fact my boots are made of extruded carcinogens!"

 

[Tricia]

^^^^

Just a few days ago, a few of us were talking bout how the snow coming into the lift from skiers right was getting scraped off, exposing bare patches, with an acknowledgement that there were more snowboarders entering that tree lined area and were "perhaps" scraping the slushy snow off when getting into those tight spots.
Then someone else said that had been skiing at a resort where the moguls are oblong and not very easy to maneuver so he asked a local why they were oblong. His reply "tele markers!!!"

There is always someone doing something different to blame for wrecking your fun.

 

[Superbman]

Motors sure make climbing easier, heck I hardly get tired at all climbing mountain roads in my car...

 

[trailtrimmer]

Man, the internet is something else. After his time racing, he went into coaching. I watched his athletes take a world championship gold medal, beating the Norwegians in Oslo.

His 10 year old, if he ever wants to "gain fitness", will not need advice from this forum.

You should have seen the ear to ear grins they both came back with!

If you are a retailer that has vested interest in selling people the latest and greatest thing because it's good for business, sure you love them. Just like our local shops here who sell them and tell customers they can ride them anyplace, though actual laws say different. Human powered bike technology is nearing it's peak, how many drivetrain, axle and head tube specs can you change and really notice a huge leap in performance? I do know how fun they are, years ago I tried a hybrid one with crappy nicad technology at Interbike and just flew past a guy on a Cervelo TT bike with aero helmet and skinsuit. I was doing 35 MPH and pushing pedals like I should be going 15.

Those of us who have spent hundreds of hours volunteering, working with land managers, legislators, and government agencies know what it took just to get shared access to hiking trails and develop more trails. To this day we still fight with crusty old hikers about access to remote trails that would be swallowed up if not for our efforts. This is simply fuel to a fire that won't die along with adding more wear and tear to some of our already distressed, overused systems. If it was a simply 50-100 watt boost, no big deal. But it's a lot more than that in stock form, and who knows the limit once mods become common place.


And call me a hypocrite all you want, but I know that skiing isn't a green activity, but I can help offset my impact by bike commuting part time and making decisions that reduce my consumption. I can afford to drive my truck every day, but I only use it for towing or when I need the capacity so I keep driving a 14 year old econobox. People who enjoy winter should be concerned about the potential for millions of more devices plugged into the power grid if they don't somehow offset what we already use. Turning a non-motorized activity into a motorized one is just another nail in the coffin of stable winters.

 

[SShore]

And call me a hypocrite all you want, but I know that skiing isn't a green activity, but I can help offset my impact by bike commuting part time and making decisions that reduce my consumption.

If you know it isn't a green activity and are preaching that everyone else should not participate in "non green" activities you don't approve of, then yes, you are a hypocrite. What difference does it make if you "OFFSET" your non green activities by riding your bike to work, you still contributed to problem you are so deeply concerned about.

 

[Mike Thomas]

To paraphrase another member's quote...."My enjoyment of the outdoors and the way I choose to do it is not your concern".

Spoken like someone who thinks 'Multi Use' trails appear out of thin air.

Here is how it works: mountain bikers build covert trail to ride with friends > friends show other friends > other friends tell everyone about 'cool trail' > cool trail is now drawing too many riders to be covert and the process to make it 'legal' begins. Lots of meetings, lots of promises > New 'legal' trail is now 'multi-use' > hikers and dog walkers begin to enjoy the trail... but maybe it would be better with hand rails and stair steps? > mountain bikers try to accommodate walkers during trail work days by adding things they've asked for (dog wakers are a no show at the trailwork day...) > 'important' dog walker scared by mountain biker > bikes no longer allowed on multi-use trail > told "they should build their own" purpose built mtb trails "somewhere else".

How 'You' enjoy 'the outdoors' is ABSO- F**king-LUTELY my concern when it might lead to 1000's of hours of my blood sweat and tears being taken from me. I am all for ebikes. I am not against eMTB, but if it puts my access to 'my' trails in jeopardy? Sorry, but f off.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Better trail management is needed regardless of what's travelling over them. But these are valid points. Some of our already screwed up popular trails would get killed by ebikes. Making jump tracks down miles of power lines would be awesome. Still, they should be treated as motorized vehicles and as such limitied to areas already authorized for motorized use. Unfortunatelly our trails are fragile and mother nature can't keep up.