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eBike Electric MTB---Wow!

Eleeski

Making fresh tracks
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So the first ebike I saw actually riding was in December. By May, they are taking over. A third of the dockless rental bikes are ebikes and are actually being ridden a lot. The ebike revolution is exploding now.

The speed at which electric propulsion is evolving is amazing. Standards based on size or weight might give us dirt bike power in something that looks like a normal mountain bike. Possible problems on the bike trails.

On the other hand, access to the outdoors is a wonderful thing. Ebikes make it available to more people to enjoy. Good!

Most riders can put out a couple hundred watts. I've seen some heavy mountain bikes but nothing over 35 pounds (15 kilos). Trail limits along those lines of thought would be valid regardless of where the tech goes to preserve the essence of trail biking while allowing more to enjoy it.

A lot of people here are very outdoor connected. As consumers of the outdoors, our reasonable feedback to people making trail policies does matter.

Eric
 

cantunamunch

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So the first ebike I saw actually riding was in December.

Really? In San Diego? That's not just late, that's freaky late. They've been on trails (and sidewalks!!!!!) here for at least 2 years. I specifically remember the battery-in-top-tube-that-looks-like-a-cannon ones. VanMoof? Those seemed to be popular amongst oblivious-to-trail-or-street-rules sidewalk shooters.
 

scott43

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It's a slippery slope. So...what if you have an e-bike that does 50mph. Is that ok on a bike path? Do you need a license? Because you're not far from a CB125 at that point..so can they use a bike path? What about a CR125? Remember the 1% ruin this for everyone...
 

cantunamunch

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I Remember the 1% ruin this for everyone...

There's almost a Gaussian distribution of 1% ers simply because there are almost as many independent variables to rank people in as there are people.

For example, the Segway 1%ers have already polluted the pristine well of non-roadway electric power, and there's even jurisdictions that require Segway licences.
 

Eleeski

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It's a slippery slope. So...what if you have an e-bike that does 50mph. Is that ok on a bike path? Do you need a license? Because you're not far from a CB125 at that point..so can they use a bike path? What about a CR125? Remember the 1% ruin this for everyone...

Wouldn't a weight limit for the bike and a watt limit for the drive be pretty workable?

Of course I see dirt bikes outnumber bicycles by - well the sky can get clouded by dirt bike dust and I'm the only one riding a bicycle out in the desert. So any bicycle encouragement sounds good to me.

But reading the mountain bike forum worries me. Hearing that ebikes are banned in Colorado and Utah discourages me. I get that an electric dirt bike is possible but that is a long way from the ebikes I see (and regularly pass on my road bike). Sounds like the real issue is efforts to close trails completely and the ebikes are the catalyst. Sad on too many levels.

I'll just sit in my house and watch videos of people outdoors. Pass the Cheetos.

Eric
 

coskigirl

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This was posted by the GM of a local bike shop in a FB group for local trail users. It is a perspective that I’m ashamed to admit I hadn’t considered. Sharing with permission of the original poster.

“This weekend I met an amazing father and daughter. The dad came in wanting to look at an electric assist mountain bike for his daughter. He introduces me to Marggie (not her real name) and I turn to meet what turned out to be an amazing young girl who was about 18 years old. I soon learn she is battling her 2nd round of cancer in the last couple of years. She's a member of the Boulder High Mountain bike racing team. Her dad looks at me and says "my kid and I love to ride together but this battle she is going through doesn't leave her with enough energy or stamina to exert herself for very long. We came to see about an assist bike so we can go ride on the trails." Now Marggie does not look frail. She stood tall and looked strong. She can handle a bike on the rugged trails we have in our local mountains. So I send her out on a test ride. She had never tried an ebike nor had her father. As I pointed her in the right direction, she pedals that 1st stroke and woosh, she heads down the road and is gone. The look in her dad's eyes was priceless. We spoke about the legality of riding the bike and which trails are approved and which aren't. I explain about my wife and the positivity her ebike has brought to her life. Then back came Marggie. To see the joy in her face of realizing she can go and she can once again do the rides she was able to do before cancer was beyond compare.

I bring this very real very emotional story up in appreciation and the hope to change some (my friends included) minds. We currently have a rule that says disabled people can legally access trails in Boulder, CO using an electric vehicle. I hope it stays that way. Here's how it reads:

Individuals with mobility disabilities may use OPDMDs on all trails open for pedestrian use unless a particular trail has been designated as inappropriate for use by OPDMDs based upon the assessment factors found in 28 CFR § 35.137(b)(2) of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

OPDMD is defined as any mobility device powered by batteries, fuel, or other type engine that is used by individuals with mobility disabilities for the purpose of locomotion, including golf cars, electronic personal assistance mobility devices such as the Segway® PT, or any other mobility device.

Use of OPDMDs must be in a safe manner and is at the risk of the user. OPDMDs may not be used off trail.

I'm so glad there is at least a bit of legal space for some people to be able to do something as awesome as enjoy our trails on their ebike. So far, at our bike shop, the reality of e mtb buyers are not wild eyed 20 year old males running people off the trails. It's been good people who need a little help doing the thing they want to do. People who know their capabilities and love our trails and open space. Every story is different too.

Recently I have seen 2 cases of mountain bike riders intimidating, mocking and even threatening e mountain bike riders for riding on both open trails and on trails that don't allow it. Please if you must even question another rider, at least be open to hearing their story. I would urge you to just let them be if they aren't causing harm. It might be Marggie and her dad enjoying a few fun hours in their otherwise very difficult day. The more I am seeing what's going on with this issue, the more I want to have this ally on the side of recreational open space lovers. We can educate people so that most will follow well established guidelines for enjoying a trail in a responsible manner.”
 
Thread Starter
TS
newfydog

newfydog

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Here is house rule 747. It states that class 1 ebikes, (no throttle, max speed of 20 mph) are not motor vehicles. It is often claimed that it only applies to sales of ebikes, not operating them. That has not been hashed out in court. I assume when it is, the test case they pick will not be an old guy like me.

SEC. 2. MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS.
For purposes of motor vehicle safety standards issued and enforced pursuant to chapter 301 of title 49, United States Code, a low-speed electric bicycle (as defined in section 38(b) of the Consumer Product Safety Act) shall not be considered a motor vehicle as defined by section 30102(6) of title 49, United States Code


(d) This section shall supersede any State law or requirement with respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such State law or requirement is more stringent than the Federal law or requirements referred to in subsection (a)

Passed the House of Representatives March 6, 2001.


 

scott43

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And I think everyone understands there are exceptions and good uses for it. But...cycling is a human-powered endeavour, not a power-assisted human endeavour. As long as they keep the classes separate I'm happy.
 

Tom K.

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At 63, I don't go any faster on that e-bike than I did as a 28 year old categorized racer.

You're too early to the party. E-bike cards are given out at 65! ;)

But also, I don't think this bike would help my biggest issue, which is apprehension about technical features.

Two friends that ride really well in tech stuff tried e-bikes and reported that the sudden surge of power, and more so the abrupt cessation of power, made for a lousy experience.

Racers will race radio flyers .It's about beating the second place guy.

AKA the "First Loser"! :D

Regarding e-bikes, I have to admit I'm not a big fan in general, on single track trails. Obviously, to me, there are lots of reasons for exceptions, but how to manage that?!

But there is TONS of money to be made in this area. I think opposing the whole concept is kind of like stepping in front of a speeding freight train and holding out your arm.
 

scott43

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My buddy is a cop in downtown Toronto..the regular beat cop guys don't even bother with e-bikes. They literally ignore them unless they actually cause an accident. They've basically been given every exception to the Highway Traffic Act. Apparently the traffic cops know the rules and will sometimes ticket them. I sit and look out my window at work and watch people cruise down the sidewalk at 20mph and think, that's not right. But what to do? You don't require a license (we call them DUI cycles..), you don't have to know the rules of the road, you can ride wherever the f* you feel like, you don't need insurance so if you hit someone, tough luck. I don't know what to say other than we're certainly not in front of the problem...

As for off-road, if I'm grinding up a hill and you have power assist and want trail right of way, go f* yourself! :D
 

coskigirl

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And I think everyone understands there are exceptions and good uses for it. But...cycling is a human-powered endeavour, not a power-assisted human endeavour. As long as they keep the classes separate I'm happy.

Unfortunately not everyone does. The original group that this was posted in has at least 1 person arguing against allowing them even for this type of exception.
 

Monique

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Two friends that ride really well in tech stuff tried e-bikes and reported that the sudden surge of power, and more so the abrupt cessation of power, made for a lousy experience.

That makes sense. Although my personal issue is that I tend to stop pedaling after I get the front tire over the obstacle. That .... doesn't work. I'm not 100% sure what dynamic is causing me to do this, although I suspect it has to do with how I approach downhill obstacles crossing wires with uphill approaches.
 

trailtrimmer

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So glad we could take a mostly green sport and infuse the use of hydrocarbons again.

I dig e-bikes for commuting and making a five mile ride feel like a one mile ride, great way to get cars off the road. But if you are a individual in decent health and flip just to make your local trails easier, you are missing the point of a bicycle entirely.
 

Monique

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I dig e-bikes for commuting and making a five mile ride feel like a one mile ride, great way to get cars off the road. But if you are a individual in decent health and flip just to make your local trails easier, you are missing the point of a bicycle entirely.

"If you are an individual in decent health and ride a mountain bike just to make your local trails more fun, you are missing the point of the outdoors entirely."

That's an argument I've heard a lot here in Boulder County, so I'm uncomfortable when anyone formulates an argument about how someone else should enjoy the outdoors.
 

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