eBike Electric MTB -- Wow! Philpug's Version

[LouD-Truckee]

better call geico....

 

[LouD-Truckee]

eFish !!!!

 

[skibob]

So, IN Banff, I see one ebike in 3 days.

On the MTB TRAILS outside of Banff, they are EVERYWHERE. Wish I knew who was renting them . . .

Oh well, Victoria Island now. Will report on e-bikes soon

 

[Philpug]

Here is a good article from The Boston Globe

 

[ScottB]

As someone who lives in Mass, I think it is a very good article and I like the statement about examining the current state of the rules. I for one like the current ruling that they are motorized vehicles, because they are. I also think that there are people that would benifit greatly from the assist they provide. I can see some compromise being worked out through official channels and following a fair process. It gets complex and enforcement is a key issue.

I would actually like to see some push back on the ebike manufacturers to embrace the issues and create an easy way to classify the bikes and identify them so enforcement will be a no brainer. A low power or governed bike that essentially performs like a std mtb but with "unlimited" stamina would make sense to mix in with human powered mtb's. Let the high KW models ride with the rest of the motorized models. Hey a Tesla will beat a Chevelle SS 396 at the drag strip any day. Electric motors can kick some as**

 

[Erik Timmerman]

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/wyn-masters-rides-leogang-up-and-down-video.html

 

[ScottB]

Here's another article (actually a video) from the Globe. Not about mtb's, but very entertaining.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...QP/story.html?p1=Article_Trending_Most_Viewed

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I can understand this guy riding an e-bike. Really though, I think if it were me I'd want to do a motorsport like karting where I could be on even ground with everyone else.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Back-on-Bike-after-Spinal-Cord-Injury.html

 

[Erik Timmerman]

 

[Philpug]

IMBA study on the effect on E-bikes on trails verses regular mountain bikes and motorcycles.

 

[Philpug]

IMBA study on the effect on E-bikes on trails verses regular mountain bikes and motorcycles.

Honestly I thought it would not be so close and I think IMBA did a pretty good job considering that they needed a controlled environment. But in reality we are not going to get 500 traditional MTB's through on a trail, then 500 e-MTB's, it is going to be a mix of hikers and in some areas horses so is there really going any difference to trail damage? There are cases where the e-MTB's did less damage to the trail than a regular MTB. I would be interested if we saw similar percentages from comparing a fully rigid bike to a full suspension or even tires, 26" vs. 27.5+ or 29?

 

[Philpug]

Snipet:

Last week the Stewardship and Yuba Expeditions hosted Fox Factory, Shimano and Pivot Cycles, bringing an entire fleet of Shuttle electric mountain bikes to Downieville. The goal was to go on a couple big rides, better understanding ebikes and how they can fit into the Lost Sierra multi-use trails picture.

Because many trails in the Downieville region are motorized legal, unlike other mountain bike destinations like Moab that have “no ebikes” signs everywhere, the Lost Sierra does not have any conflicts or restrictions on ebike use. In fact, the added electric assist of an ebike makes more terrain more accessible to more people, and in this case, more is definitely better.

Read the whole article:
Riding Downieville in eBikes-Sierra Butte Trail Stewardship.

 

[luliski]

I tried to read the article, but I was distracted by:
http://www.lostandfoundbikeride.com/lost-and-found/lost-sierra-triple-crown
This sounds more fun to me than e-bike riding. Why is more better?

 

[luliski]

So I did finally read the whole article about e-bikes in the Lost Sierra. I also found this video, while looking at info about the Downieville Classic (which is this weekend):
So the argument (for the more the better) is that the more people that use the trails in the Lost Sierra, the more money goes into the local economy. The video is inspiring. The people who make up the Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship clearly love where they live, love their work, and want to make a sustainable life for themselves and their community by maintaining the Sierra Buttes as a recreational area.

The article linked by @Philpug, above, also mentions that people on e-bikes are able to access some of the difficult trails that most mtb cannot ride, thus keeping (at least the e-bikes) off portions of trail that are closed to bikes. I have seen friends post pictures of themselves riding on a section of trail up there closed to mountain bikes ( I think it's part of the PCT). They call it the "perfect mountain bike trail." Apparently the "perfect trail" is a way to ride past some very difficult terrain up there.

I have mixed feelings about the whole idea of bringing more people in to enjoy the trails. Selfishly, I'd love to keep the area more pristine for people who are able to hike and ride the rugged terrain. California is so crowded, and it's nice to have less populated areas to go to. But if not enough people go, the trails will cease to exist because the people who maintain them will have to go live and work somewhere else. Plus I think it's fair to have access for people who don't have the physical ability to ride or hike onto public lands.

 

[Andy Mink]

Can't we all just get along? I say that as a non-rider (but who may be interested) who has seen and experienced similar discussions as they relate to archery and the shooting sports. You have the traditional bow shooters who think the recurve shooters are cheating who think the compound bow shooters are cheating who think the crossbow shooters are cheating. Inevitably, it comes down to "go back to the knife and spear" comment. Same with single action versus pump versus bolt versus semi auto in the shooting sports. Throw in iron sights, glass optics, and red dot/laser sights and you have a whole other can of worms. Bottom line is don't eat your own. Work with each other instead of against. Let the differences compliment, not segregate.

How's that for a little unsolicited grandstanding?

 

[ScottB]

Your message to work with each other is commendable, but I don't think your analogies are on point. No one is argueing whether mtb and emtb's should be racing with each other, its obvious they should not. The question is should emtb's be allowed on hiking trails (which mtb's are allowed on) or should they be regulated to "motorized" trails with the dirt bikes and ATV's. Its all about regulating use of "public access" land.

I assume you are talking about competitions or hunting, maybe I am wrong. I think of guns (which I don't like) but I wouldn't want to be in a match with a high powered rifle if I had a shot gun (unless the targe was 10 feet away). Ebikes are new, should they be regulated like motorcyles or bicylces, they are a combo of both, argueably.

 

[Andy Mink]

Your message to work with each other is commendable, but I don't think your analogies are on point. No one is argueing whether mtb and emtb's should be racing with each other, its obvious they should not. The question is should emtb's be allowed on hiking trails (which mtb's are allowed on) or should they be regulated to "motorized" trails with the dirt bikes and ATV's. Its all about regulating use of "public access" land.

I assume you are talking about competitions or hunting, maybe I am wrong. I think of guns (which I don't like) but I wouldn't want to be in a match with a high powered rifle if I had a shot gun (unless the targe was 10 feet away). Ebikes are new, should they be regulated like motorcyles or bicylces, they are a combo of both, argueably.

I think the main difference is with a motorcycle all you do is twist the throttle. An ebike won't do anything unless you're already pedalling (as I understand it). Much more bicycle than dirtbike imho. I do agree that the rules need to be clarified for eveyone's convenience, both riders and enforcement.

 

[Primoz]

IMBA study on the effect on E-bikes on trails verses regular mountain bikes and motorcycles.

Can't we all just get along?

Both these go into same reply, as it's similar thing... I don't think those extra 10kg on emtb makes difference when "destroying" trails. So based on this, I don't really believe emtb by itself would make more damage then proper mtb. But what it hard to take into account is people riding one or the other bike. I was cruising some more popular mtb destinations in Alps and Dolomites in last few weeks, and I was honestly surprised about amount of mopeds (yeah fuc** it... it's moped not bike and it doesn't really matter if you add gas by turning grip on handlebar or slowly spinning your feet) on mountains. Two years ago there was lot of it, but now it's more like 90:10 for e-mtb up on mountains (some 2500m high) and probably 1000:1 down in valleys (road bikes on the other hand are still pretty much all human powered). And here comes problem with damage and also answer to "can't we all just get along". No, we unfortunately can not. If e-mtb users would be people who were riding normal mtb's for years then sure, we could, except for few occasions when someone with moped tries to race with you (in real life or on Strava) . But, at least over here, majority, if not every single one, of e-mtb users are people for who cycling was just too hard thing, and they never knew how to behave on trails. And it's pretty obvious this nowadays. So for all what we have been fighting for, all that "getting along" with other users of trails, mainly mountaineers over here, is going to be destroyed real fast with attitude most of these guys have.
But on the other side, there's one good thing with all this. Until now, we were fighting for more access more or less alone with little of support of certain people from tourist business. Now, this thing is huge, and everyone and their dog is renting e-mtb, organizing e-mtb tours etc., so even if this relationship with old trail users, we have been trying to build for years will be gone, there's gonna be powerful lobby making it all go away, as they will want to keep their income. And their income now is much bigger then it was. Before there were few villages living from mtb in summer (like Livigno for example), as number of people riding was not that big, but now e-mtb is cool thing, and everyone are doing it, from fancy places next to lakes to smalles village up in mountain, as users base is huge. So all problems will be settled by people with economical interest behind, even though there will be way more conflicts up on trails. So maybe e-mtb is not all that bad afterall.

 

[bud heishman]

Primoz, sounds alot like the FAT ski revolution. I remember purist powder skiers being upset their pristine powder runs were skied out so much faster with the advent of fat skis permitting less skilled skiers to experience more success in the soft snow. While there may be some growing pains with E MTB's on our trails, overall we will all adapt. While we will be renting E bikes at my shop's new location, I will encourage first time e bikers to be especially courteous to hikers and other MTB'rs. I have been switching back and forth from my regular MTB and the E bike and love both for different reasons. Some of my riding buddies poopoo the e bike stating they can just stop working out now. I look at it a bit differently. Some ride for fitness, some of us ride for FUN and fitness benefits are secondary. I can rider farther and longer on my e-bike that means more FUN. Will there be people riding e bikes who don't have the learned skills to handle some of the trails? sure. Will there be inconsiderate cyclists? sure. Will e bikes be around for a long time? I will bet on it! Will e bikes keep older people riding and enjoying nature longer? yes. Will they allow a less fit friend or spouse to keep up with the group and enjoy the day? you bet. My Norco rep told me that e bikes sales in Europe now account for 65% of all bike sales! It's coming to America!

 

[ScottB]

here is a good ebike point of veiw from the mtn bike reviewer on Blister. I happen to agree with his POV which motivated me to post the link.

http://blistergearreview.com/featured/pinkbikes-efailure