I know I get as much if not more workout when I am on an Ebike as a regular one. I am out 25-50% longer, I am riding 100% more distance and coming back just as, if not more physically drained.
I think part of it, especially on an eMTN bike, is that you know you have an insurance policy. You'll climb the next hill, knowing that you'll for sure be able to get back (w/o the walk of shame).I know I get as much if not more workout when I am on an Ebike as a regular one. I am out 25-50% longer, I am riding 100% more distance and coming back just as, if not more physically drained.
FIFY.I think part of it, especially on an eMTN bike, is that you know you have an insurance policy. You'll go down the next hill, knowing that you'll for sure be able to get back (w/o the walk of shame).
I know I get as much if not more workout when I am on an Ebike as a regular one. I am out 25-50% longer, I am riding 100% more distance and coming back just as, if not more physically drained.
Oh, come on, now. I suppose that next you'll be telling us you're also having more fun?!
Be more fun with a cup holder for a pint of frosty beverage.
I know I get as much if not more workout when I am on an Ebike as a regular one. I am out 25-50% longer, I am riding 100% more distance and coming back just as, if not more physically drained.
So, thought I'd chime back in as the old school mtb goob I am...
I've been riding w/ a few friends lately who are coming back from long term injuries and riding ebikes.
With more exposure, my thoughts are still the same as when I left this thread in the fall and Phil and I were going to ride together..
It would make a lot more sense if it were more like the same sport and more on a human scale. There would be less user conflicts with guys climbing up trails on ebikes at 15mph that would usually be ridden up at 5mph, so trail beds get wider, collisions much more likely etc.. People are riding up trails like 3rd divide a downieville, at 15mph, I"m coming down at twice that or so, yikes.
I go back to why the need for 350watts? I still ride pretty well and average 150watts constantly. Do ebikes really feel they have to ride uphill at more than twice the speed an average fit person?
I also hear the twice as much time on the bike comment, but my inverse thought is that if I have less than 45min, I go for a run so I get a workout, if I have 1.5hrs, great, I get a worthwhile workout riding, if I had an ebike, I'd need 3 hours to get the same workout? Doesn't fit with my play scheduled, that's for sure. Plus, give everyone with average fitness an ebike and double their mileage.. that would really beat up on the trails... I sure hope they are spending double the time adopting trails and keeping them up. I know I spend dozens of hours each summer maintaining my trails, double that up, right?
I also see why they are so popular in Europe, when you have to climb 2 to 5k to get to fun trails, I'd be thinking about some assistance as well. Big terrain and dirt road climbs, yep. Maybe CO has some of that too. CA, straight to singletrack, 1 to 2 hr loops of fun, no need I can see.
I'm not against this movement, I see the niche and ride w/ guys who were once fit who are using them as a tool to re find that, but I just hope they find a way to make them lighter and the riders keep their pace more human power oriented than motor powered... why can't they make a bike/battery that adds 50-200 watts, adds 5lbs instead of 10-20lbs?
Cheers!
W
So, thought I'd chime back in as the old school mtb goob I am...
I've been riding w/ a few friends lately who are coming back from long term injuries and riding ebikes.
With more exposure, my thoughts are still the same as when I left this thread in the fall and Phil and I were going to ride together..
It would make a lot more sense if it were more like the same sport and more on a human scale. There would be less user conflicts with guys climbing up trails on ebikes at 15mph that would usually be ridden up at 5mph, so trail beds get wider, collisions much more likely etc.. People are riding up trails like 3rd divide a downieville, at 15mph, I"m coming down at twice that or so, yikes.
I go back to why the need for 350watts? I still ride pretty well and average 150watts constantly. Do ebikes really feel they have to ride uphill at more than twice the speed an average fit person?
I also hear the twice as much time on the bike comment, but my inverse thought is that if I have less than 45min, I go for a run so I get a workout, if I have 1.5hrs, great, I get a worthwhile workout riding, if I had an ebike, I'd need 3 hours to get the same workout? Doesn't fit with my play schedule, that's for sure. Plus, give everyone with average fitness an ebike and double their mileage.. that would really beat up on the trails... I sure hope they are spending double the time adopting trails and keeping them up. I know I spend dozens of hours each summer maintaining my trails, double that up, right?
I also see why they are so popular in Europe, when you have to climb 2 to 5k to get to fun trails, I'd be thinking about some assistance as well. Big terrain and dirt road climbs, yep. Maybe CO has some of that too. CA, straight to singletrack, 1 to 2 hr loops of fun, no need I can see.
I'm not against this movement, I see the niche and ride w/ guys who were once fit who are using them as a tool to re find that, but I just hope they find a way to make them lighter and the riders keep their pace more human power oriented than motor powered... why can't they make a bike/battery that adds 50-200 watts, adds 5lbs instead of 10-20lbs?
Cheers!
W
FIFY.....Why do ebikes feel they have to ride uphill at more than twice the speed an average fit person?
It's amazing the misconception people on ebikes have regarding trail manners, politeness, and dare I say.... etiquette....
And it's always the ones on ebikes.....
Ok maybe I look this a bit too much from my way of riding, but if I stay with that, then you don't need twice the time, but there's simply no way to get same amount of exercise on ebike as you would on normal bike, regardless on how long you stay out there. As soon as you have 250W (what ebikes are officially limited over here in Europe) and even less when you have 750W under your butt, you don't need any exercise at all to come anywhere you want, including steepest and longest hills. It's as simple as that. You don't need to try it, you just need to know a bit about physics and very very little about human power.Why would you need more time on a e bike to get the same exercise as on a regular mountain bike?
It's amazing the misconception people have about e mountain bikes.
And it's always the ones that haven't tried it.
This is so ignorant i don't even know where to startOk maybe I look this a bit too much from my way of riding, but if I stay with that, then you don't need twice the time, but there's simply no way to get same amount of exercise on ebike as you would on normal bike, regardless on how long you stay out there. As soon as you have 250W (what ebikes are officially limited over here in Europe) and even less when you have 750W under your butt, you don't need any exercise at all to come anywhere you want, including steepest and longest hills. It's as simple as that. You don't need to try it, you just need to know a bit about physics and very very little about human power.
I'm probably very fit compared to average population here, yet my max power output for 2min (on end of about 30min test where power is gradually going up for 50W every 2min) is 800W. Something, I can normally sustain for 30min, and not drop dead on end of those 30min, is around 300W. With my weight that's about 4W/kg. If you are slightly overweight, and have 750W under your seat, it means you have you 10W (as you need to spin pedals to control motor power) plus 750W from motor which means you come to almost 8.5W/kg. Top pro (road) riders are considered to be fully juiced when they reach 6.5W/kg
So yeah, I agree, you certainly get more exercise if you are out on emtb lightly spinning pedals then laying at home, but it's nothing but marketing BS to claim, you get same, or even more exercise with moped then on regular bike. Even if you go out with bike for 30min and you sped 3h on moped. Only way to get more is if you run out of battery and you need to pedal back home with that heavy beast for few hours
You are, quite erroneously, assuming that every rider will use the full and complete power available to them. Quite far from the truth.Ok maybe I look this a bit too much from my way of riding, but if I stay with that, then you don't need twice the time, but there's simply no way to get same amount of exercise on ebike as you would on normal bike, regardless on how long you stay out there. As soon as you have 250W (what ebikes are officially limited over here in Europe) and even less when you have 750W under your butt, you don't need any exercise at all to come anywhere you want, including steepest and longest hills. It's as simple as that. You don't need to try it, you just need to know a bit about physics and very very little about human power.
I'm probably very fit compared to average population here, yet my max power output for 2min (on end of about 30min test where power is gradually going up for 50W every 2min) is 800W. Something, I can normally sustain for 30min, and not drop dead on end of those 30min, is around 300W. With my weight that's about 4W/kg. If you are slightly overweight, and have 750W under your seat, it means you have you 10W (as you need to spin pedals to control motor power) plus 750W from motor which means you come to almost 8.5W/kg. Top pro (road) riders are considered to be fully juiced when they reach 6.5W/kg
So yeah, I agree, you certainly get more exercise if you are out on emtb lightly spinning pedals then laying at home, but it's nothing but marketing BS to claim, you get same, or even more exercise with moped then on regular bike. Even if you go out with bike for 30min and you sped 3h on moped. Only way to get more is if you run out of battery and you need to pedal back home with that heavy beast for few hours
I'm not really ignorant, nor erroneous, I'm just not trying to fool anyone that riding ebike is same as riding bike Since I have way too much time on my hands today, I checked if my physics from uni still works, and did some calculations to actually show you, how much you really "cycle" with emopeds
I took for example one of my climbs in my backyard and here are data:
Uphill is 3.63km long and has 425m of ascent. Without going full speed I my time up is about 25min, which considering my weight and bike weight (plus few other factors that matter) brings that to average power of 252W, average speed of 8.7km/h and average climbing rate of 1020m/h.
Now, if I believe Bosch technical data for their ebike motors, and I don't see reason why not to believe them, there are 4 steps of assist. Eco with 60% assist, Tour with 140%, sport with 240% and Turbo with 340%. Now comes interesting part. Since you are suppose to have same workout on ebike as you have on normal bike, this means, I calculated my own 252W plus motor assist and here are data:
own power: 252W
Speed: 8.7km
time: 25:00min
vam: 1020m/h
eco: 60% = 403W (151W motor 252W own power)
Speed: 13.7km
time: 15:55min
vam: 1600m/h
tour: 140% = 604W total (352W motor 252W own power)
Speed: 19.8km
time: 11:00min
vam: 2320m/h
sport: 240% = 856W total (604 motor 252W own power)
Speed: 25.13km
time: 8:40min
vam: 2942
turbo: 340% = 1108W total (856W motor 252W own power)
Speed: 31.1km
time: 7:00min
vam: 3645m/h
So much about being ignorant If you are riding all the time just on eco, you are 40% faster on that climb, and with 14km/h you would slowly start to have issues riding that trail. If you accidentally turn to Tour mode, you are almost 60% faster and I'm pretty sure there's no way you would ride that trail at 20km/h. Sport and Turbo modes are simply ridiculous, so it's useless to even comment on that.
I guess you can do conclusion out of these data yourself if you are really getting just as much exercise on emtb as you would on normal bike, or you are really just going up with motor and stretching legs adding motor power to the wheels
What i said is that you spend the same energy per HOUR.I'm not really ignorant, nor erroneous, I'm just not trying to fool anyone that riding ebike is same as riding bike Since I have way too much time on my hands today, I checked if my physics from uni still works, and did some calculations to actually show you, how much you really "cycle" with emopeds
I took for example one of my climbs in my backyard and here are data:
Uphill is 3.63km long and has 425m of ascent. Without going full speed I my time up is about 25min, which considering my weight and bike weight (plus few other factors that matter) brings that to average power of 252W, average speed of 8.7km/h and average climbing rate of 1020m/h.
Now, if I believe Bosch technical data for their ebike motors, and I don't see reason why not to believe them, there are 4 steps of assist. Eco with 60% assist, Tour with 140%, sport with 240% and Turbo with 340%. Now comes interesting part. Since you are suppose to have same workout on ebike as you have on normal bike, this means, I calculated my own 252W plus motor assist and here are data:
own power: 252W
Speed: 8.7km
time: 25:00min
vam: 1020m/h
eco: 60% = 403W (151W motor 252W own power)
Speed: 13.7km
time: 15:55min
vam: 1600m/h
tour: 140% = 604W total (352W motor 252W own power)
Speed: 19.8km
time: 11:00min
vam: 2320m/h
sport: 240% = 856W total (604 motor 252W own power)
Speed: 25.13km
time: 8:40min
vam: 2942
turbo: 340% = 1108W total (856W motor 252W own power)
Speed: 31.1km
time: 7:00min
vam: 3645m/h
So much about being ignorant If you are riding all the time just on eco, you are 40% faster on that climb, and with 14km/h you would slowly start to have issues riding that trail. If you accidentally turn to Tour mode, you are almost 60% faster and I'm pretty sure there's no way you would ride that trail at 20km/h. Sport and Turbo modes are simply ridiculous, so it's useless to even comment on that.
I guess you can do conclusion out of these data yourself if you are really getting just as much exercise on emtb as you would on normal bike, or you are really just going up with motor and stretching legs adding motor power to the wheels
Sure, if you are able to ride twisted rocky singletrail up at 30km/h, or 20 or whatever speed, but basically at least twice as fast (even on lowest possible setting) as you would otherwise. And most of people are not really able to ride at such speed, which means you don't sped same energy PER HOUR. When it comes to this it's really more pure physics and lack of bike handling at insane speed on tricky terrain, then personal perception how much you want to feel you are working even if you don'tWhat i said is that you spend the same energy per HOUR.