Driving a 'people mover' van in snowy road conditions.

[Swede]

No experience from that specific route or the conditions, but loads of ”minivan”-exerience in winter conditions—snowy and icey country roads in Scandinavia (Sweden/Norway).
Real winter tires are crusial for safety on snow and in freezing temperatures (not all seasons). AWD of more importance if you’re planning to drive in deeper snow/on small roads that doesn’t get cleared. Not as much a driving safety issue inmo. AWD will not help you stop your vehicle and has no critical influence on handling and keeping you on the road, unless you drive WRC-style.

 

[Marty McSly]

https://awdrentals.com

and this https://reservations.ruggedrental.com/vehicles

Just bookmarking this for future reference. I'm thinking Tahoe to JH next year. Not sure of intermediate points yet.

 

[Philpug]

if the single large vehicle is prohibitively expensive rent 2 standard size suvs and have 2 drivers.

We did that on one of the trips west, it worked out very well.

 

[BS Slarver]

If your planning this far in advance - keep
shopping the major agencies, something is bound to come up cheaper and when it does grab it. Promotions come and go throughout the year and we have scored on a full size in the past even after checking earlier months with the same group.
Would be a bummer to spend all the money on what sounds like an amazing road trip only to have issues with the rental.
IMHO - When traveling with ski gear - there’s never enough room.

 

[Goose]

More than anything its about the tires. Contrary to peoples misguided beliefs...dedicated snows are even more worthy than having 4wd or Awd. There are numerous articles about this very thing and also tests which prove it that I have read about.

4wd or Awd can certainly help one get out from being stuck but even that is minimal vs being stuck with also having dedicated snows on. Many Suv's are also more top heavy or at least have a higher center of gravity vs cars or vans and higher center of gravity is never a good thing. They also tend to have wider tires and its been proven that slimmer tires track better in snow.

I think the suv (especially larger ones) breeds a false sense of confidence into far too many people when driving them in bad conditions. If they don't have dedicated snows on the vehicle they are fooling themselves in a bad way. And the small car next to them with its snow tires on or the one the suv driver is trying to push out of his way is actually the better vehicle to be driving. Of course the driver plays some role too.

 

[Andy Mink]

Keep in mind in some areas, like around Tahoe, you get "chains or AWD/4WD with snow tires only" conditions. Not so sure about UT, WY, and MT. As long as it has the M&S on the sidewall it's legal. Doesn't mean it's good, just legal.

 

[François Pugh]

Of all the vehicles I've driven in winter conditions, the loaded up front wheel drive van/minivan is the worst.

I agree with Goose on the value of good winter tires. I would still choose the behemoth SUV than the compact car, unless I could be assured there were no other vehicles on the road.

Too bad they don't have these anymore,

Low centre of gravity, heavy enough to plow through over a foot of heavy wet snow with decent winter tires, six seatbelts and room for luggage behind them (including 208 cm skis diagonally), or 8 seat belted passengers using the rumble seat and luggage on the roof. Admittedly Truth be told, those folk seated backwards in the third row better be small. Very comfy with 5 passengers and luggage inside.
EDIT: Gotta admit my Mazda 3 gets better gas mileage.

 

[crgildart]

Not all that long ago I was driving a 25 foot RV around Yellowstone, Jackson, and Grand Teton... in the summer. There were some pretty attention getting crosswinds that pushed us around quite a bit; I'd not want to be in a vehicle that big on snow and ice with mediocre tires, or even with chains on that kind of wind. A half ton sprinter wouldn't be my vehicle of choice for even highway driving up there in the winter. Two reasonable sized vehicles like 4 Runners would be much better.

 

[newfydog]

More than anything its about the tires. Contrary to peoples misguided beliefs...dedicated snows are even more worthy than having 4wd or Awd. .

Most issues driving in snow occur while braking. 4WD will get you up to speed just in time to not be able to stop. Please,for everone's sake, find something with good tires.

 

[Andy Mink]

Most issues driving in snow occur while braking. 4WD will get you up to speed just in time to not be able to stop. Please,for everone's sake, find something with good tires.

And distance. For the love of everything holy, leave room between you and the car in front. Not only does it give you extra time to slow/stop but it allows you to continue creeping when at a stop sign or light. Creep is better than spinning tires after you stop.

 

[newfydog]

Not all that long ago I was driving a 25 foot RV around Yellowstone, Jackson, and Grand Teton... in the summer. There were some pretty attention getting crosswinds that pushed us around quite a bit; I'd not want to be in a vehicle that big on snow and ice with mediocre tires, or even with chains on that kind of wind. A half ton sprinter wouldn't be my vehicle of choice for even highway driving up there in the winter. .

Mercedes has a magical cross wind assist intervention in the Sprinter. We recently managed to cross Nevada in gale force winds both ways. Saw regular SUV's off road, upsided down. Somehow that Sprinter did fine.

It also has an uphill and downhill 4wd traction compensation package, but I wouldn't drive it without heavy duty snow tires.

 

[Goose]

hers an Edmunds article part.

Here's another way to think about it: What would perform better in the snow? A front-wheel-drive car with winter tires or an AWD car with all-season tires? Michelin tested this scenario in a study a few years ago. The FWD car with winter tires outperformed the AWD car in nearly every test. The AWD vehicle had the edge in acceleration, but when it came time to hit the brakes, its braking distance was significantly longer than the FWD car's. Of course, if the AWD vehicle had a full set of winter tires, it would be the hands-down winner, but it goes to show the importance of good tires.

Heres an articale from Forbs mag fwiw
Tests have shown in that front-wheel-drive cars fitted with snow tires can outperform an equivalent AWD car with all-season tires under severe winter circumstances.

Here is a link to consumer reports testing with interesting articles and vids.
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/09/do-you-really-need-awd-in-the-snow/index.htm

No doubt having drive come from more tires (and thats only if done correctly) will get you moving and get up and out of situations. But when it comes to braking and cornering while driving its the tires by far that make the difference in over all safety.

I can understand the clearance issue of a car vs a suv for when in deep snows. But other than that, more weight and higher gravity adds to more force working against regaining traction when its lost.

problem with snow tires in places where there is winter but not the same winter as one living in ski country is that snow tires are expensive and since there may often not be enough snow storms they do wear down fast. so not only is it a great expense but they also don't last. The other argument would be....you cant place a price on safety. None the less and justified or not its the snow tires that make the greatest difference more than the vehicle does.

And for those with pick up trucks? please put some weight in the back via sand bags or whatever. But don't over do that either..lol

 

[mdf]

I had a rental Suburban in Utah at last year's Gathering and another at this year's in Big Sky. Room for five with skis and boot bags, but still tight. (Put half the third row seat down, but long skis still had to encroach a little on passengers.)

The one in Utah had very good traction. The one in Monanna was horrible. (It had Colorado plates, by the way.) I just did a quick inspection of the tires, and the tread looked OK. Come to think of it, I just *assumed* they were M&S -- did not look at the sidewalls.

In Montana I had a scary incident where the traction broke free on the road and I went diagonal for a few scary seconds till it caught.

I also got stuck in a parking lot and had to rock it out --- hard to do with other cars nearby. In contrast, in Utah one time I parked on a snowbank when the parking lot was full.

 

[Andy Mink]

where there is winter but not the same winter as one living in ski country

There are some snow tires now that do much better as far as wear on asphalt. Not as good as full blown snow tires but way better than summer or all season. We had Michelin X-Ice on our Mini and it was quite good on the packed snow and ice around town. Plus they held up when the road was clear. Unfortunately, you're not going to get anything like that on a car or truck from a rental car place.

 

[Tom K.]

I had a rental Suburban in Utah at last year's Gathering and another at this year's in Big Sky. Room for five with skis and boot bags, but still tight. (Put half the third row seat down, but long skis still had to encroach a little on passengers.)

The one in Utah had very good traction. The one in Monanna was horrible. (It had Colorado plates, by the way.) I just did a quick inspection of the tires, and the tread looked OK. Come to think of it, I just *assumed* they were M&S -- did not look at the sidewalls.

In Montana I had a scary incident where the traction broke free on the road and I went diagonal for a few scary seconds till it caught.

I also got stuck in a parking lot and had to rock it out --- hard to do with other cars nearby. In contrast, in Utah one time I parked on a snowbank when the parking lot was full.

Very interesting, real world example.

Would be FASCINATING if you knew what tires were on each Subie!

 

[Goose]

I also got stuck in a parking lot and had to rock it out --- hard to do with other cars nearby. l.

You know whats terrible for rocking out of a stuck spot noawadays is the darn "ESC"
Most cars and I think most crossovers (not certain about suv' s) do for years now have ESC. Or electronic steering/stabilizer control , whatever.
So your stuck in a spot perhaps at the bottom of your own driveway, whatever. You try to rock the car but every time the driving tire slips the ESC stops sending tourque and basically you go no where. While this is safer once moving about, its an absolute nightmare when trying to rock yourself out of a stuck spot. or even just to pull yourself up the incline especially without dedicated snows on. Most people don't realize you can simply hit the button to turn ESC off (usually indicated by a warning light within the dash and gauge area). Now you can rock the vehicle or maybe even just get right up since you will have torque to the slipping wheel/s restored. Once out and moving about though you should throw it back on.

 

[Goose]

There are some snow tires now that do much better as far as wear on asphalt. Not as good as full blown snow tires but way better than summer or all season. We had Michelin X-Ice on our Mini and it was quite good on the packed snow and ice around town. Plus they held up when the road was clear. Unfortunately, you're not going to get anything like that on a car or truck from a rental car place.

fwiw I even find tires on new vehicles right out of the showroom to be horrible not just for snow of course but even for rain. I mean there are some pretty good cars out there even at the cheaper economy levels that are two different vehicles once the stock tires are replaced. I put a lot of mileage on my commuter cars through the years (about 26k per year) and I live slightly on the free spirited side of driving and been through my share of tire sets. The difference in handling rain and even lighter snowy conditions is night and day when better (even if all seasons) tires are on the same cars. Im talking not being able to go above 50in puddling rain with stock set and yet the same car easily doing 65/70 in the exact same conditions with no fear of breaking free at all. And the same (of course at slower speeds) goes for snowy conditions. I don't run snows living in Jersey and commuting to NYC (a 90 mile round trip). But what I do buy are tires that perform best in rain, wet, and fwiw best as possible in snowy conditions for what an all season can.

I just don't get buying tires for their dry performance when its the wet conditions that pose the most threat to safety and when you need the best from them.

Funny (but not really funny) thing happened to me due to tires. One wet cold day while commuting the same turn (exit ramp) that I taken for 20 yrs I found my (at the time) car began to loose the road a tad and I wasn't even pushing the turn any faster than normal. I figured possibly some oil was there or something. Then (the next cold wet day) as I recalled the previous day I drove slower around that same turn and still felt the car break free just a tad. WTF... I also felt that the car riding a bit firmer than usual. The combo made me think tire pressure. So when I got home that second day I immediately checked my tire pressure because two days earlier I had an oil change and tire rotation done. Sure enough the idiot put 44 lbs when I need to be at 32. Once I let air out the car was just fine again. Of course I blasted the shop that over inflated my tires and it could have been a real bad situation had I not been able to feel the car slip a tad. One the advantages of driving many miles is that you get very used to the sound and the feel of the car. Not for that I could have been in serious trouble. But just note here......how important proper tire pressure (for the given vehicle) is.

 

[François Pugh]

You know whats terrible for rocking out of a stuck spot noawadays is the darn "ESC"
Most cars and I think most crossovers (not certain about suv' s) do for years now have ESC. Or electronic steering/stabilizer control , whatever.
So your stuck in a spot perhaps at the bottom of your own driveway, whatever. You try to rock the car but every time the driving tire slips the ESC stops sending tourque and basically you go no where. While this is safer once moving about, its an absolute nightmare when trying to rock yourself out of a stuck spot. or even just to pull yourself up the incline especially without dedicated snows on. Most people don't realize you can simply hit the button to turn ESC off (usually indicated by a warning light within the dash and gauge area). Now you can rock the vehicle or maybe even just get right up since you will have torque to the slipping wheel/s restored. Once out and moving about though you should throw it back on.

We here call it "traction control", but ESC is probably the proper name. It's a no brainer for me now, if the snow is a couple of inches higher than the ground clearance on my Mazda 3, and I'm moving slowly, like in a parking lot, the first thing I do is turn the damn traction control off.

I've done this experiment with a few rental cars too, e.g. trying to make it up an icy hill in a storm. Keep it floored as the traction control kills the power and leaves you stopped going nowhere, then turn off the traction control and burn rubber up the hill.

 

[Beartown]

https://awdrentals.com

and this https://reservations.ruggedrental.com/vehicles

If you look at the "winter driving" fine print for this place, it says "our vehicles are equipped with all season tires", not snow tires.

 

[Goose]

We here call it "traction control", but ESC is probably the proper name. It's a no brainer for me now, if the snow is a couple of inches higher than the ground clearance on my Mazda 3, and I'm moving slowly, like in a parking lot, the first thing I do is turn the damn traction control off.

I've done this experiment with a few rental cars too, e.g. trying to make it up an icy hill in a storm. Keep it floored as the traction control kills the power and leaves you stopped going nowhere, then turn off the traction control and burn rubber up the hill.

Haha Ive actually got the same car HB version. But Im thinking we may have actually noted that in the past. Anyway Love it. And its got the ESC button. Mine is a 2017 with the 2.5. Not sure what your mileage is but when they were done I replaced the stock Bridgestone tires with continental pure or extreme contacts (something like that) DWS. Much quieter and better in wintery conditions though still not of course "snow tires". Anyway off topic but I think I may trade in for the CX5 which I almost bought in the first place.