I have a GT sport. My winter tires are Hakka R2s. Looking forward to replacing the stock tires with a more summer oriented tire.
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Driving a 'people mover' van in snowy road conditions.
- Thread starter sbooker
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2016
- Posts
- 430
if you are driving Teton Pass be aware of the following:
Chain laws
Level 1
When conditions are hazardous, travel can be restricted to:
• Vehicles equipped with tirechains; or
• Vehicles with adequate snowtires; or
• All-wheel-drive vehicles.
Level 2
When conditions are
extremely hazardous, travel can be restricted to:
• Vehicles equipped with tirechains; or
• All-wheel-drive vehicles equipped with adequate
mud and snow or all-weather-rated tires.
Wyoming has some pretty hefty fines for violators. Especially if you cause problems or block the road. Hit the web site.
Teton pass is frequently under the first and often under the second -closed a bunch too, this year A word of advice. Old truck driver rule of thumb. Be in the same gear or one lower going down than going up. The right hand joy stick helps a bunch in the mountains.
Chain laws
Level 1
When conditions are hazardous, travel can be restricted to:
• Vehicles equipped with tirechains; or
• Vehicles with adequate snowtires; or
• All-wheel-drive vehicles.
Level 2
When conditions are
extremely hazardous, travel can be restricted to:
• Vehicles equipped with tirechains; or
• All-wheel-drive vehicles equipped with adequate
mud and snow or all-weather-rated tires.
Wyoming has some pretty hefty fines for violators. Especially if you cause problems or block the road. Hit the web site.
Teton pass is frequently under the first and often under the second -closed a bunch too, this year A word of advice. Old truck driver rule of thumb. Be in the same gear or one lower going down than going up. The right hand joy stick helps a bunch in the mountains.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2017
- Posts
- 234
Doesn't the fine print in vehicle rental contracts preclude fitting chains?
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2017
- Posts
- 234
Pretty much what I thought. For a tourist from overseas, buy chains from Walmart, return them if unused?
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2017
- Posts
- 240
Exactly
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2017
- Posts
- 234
I'm hearing you. I had that unfortunate experience with my own car when I was a newbie to the snow. Luckily just paint chipping from an unsecured length of adjuster chain. But still a pain in the pocket to fix. So I'll be very careful.
This is my experience also. I imagine the cost of replacing worn out snow tires that have been driven long distances on dry interstates would be a big turn-off for rental companies.
To the OP....I wouldn't be doing that road trip in a vehicle that doesn't have AWD/4WD when you have good options. Just too restrictive not to mention the additional risk.
Perhaps there are no options for snow tires on rentals (over here it’s illegal to drive w/o snow tires in winter conditions), but be aware and extremely careful. 4x4 and AWD will do zilch/nada for road safety. It won’t help you to stop your vehicle on snow/ice or make it stay on the road. Drive slow and be gentle on the pedal.
While I agree there is no substitute for experienced, patient and appropriate driving in winter conditions, there is a clear traction advantage from having four wheels assisting with drive rather than two. So to say there is zilch advantage for road safety for 4x4/AWD is rather dramatically overstating things and is incorrect. Heading on a road trip in USA winter conditions in a 4wd/AWD is considerably safer than a 2WD, given the same driver.
You void your rental car damage insurance the minute you chain up. I had a link break when running BRAND NEW chains on a personal vehicle once. I heard it go and start smacking the rear quarter panel. Pulled over and repaired it with wire but the damage was done.
Andy Mink
Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
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It's unfortunate rental vehicles in snowy areas don't come with snow tires or at least the option of chaining up. A broken chain will cause less damage than a full on crash. Some owner manuals specifically state NOT to use traction devices, usually due to lack of clearance between the tire and wheel well.
AWD/4x4 won’t help you stop. It won’t help you steer. It might give you a slight advantage if you’re stuck in deeper snow, but that’s it. Not really road safety.
You missed a major - getting moving on snow/ice - AWD rules lol. And in some situations authorities may allow you on to a road with AWD, but not with 2WD, thus the OP's road trip grinds to a halt until the roads are cleared.
I'm not looking for an argument here...perhaps if I spell it out like this. For winter driving in snow:
2WD with normal tires < AWD with normal tires < 2WD with snow tires < AWD with snow tires
Hence the OP is better off in an AWD than a 2WD if they both have normal tires (which they will through 99% of rental agencies).
Unfortunately snow tires are not common in many countries for the reason I mentioned earlier - drive them far on a non-snowy road and they die very quickly, which makes them uneconomical.
That depends on the driver. Having the extra driving wheels takes some of the driving load off of one pair of wheels so they have more of their traction available for steering, which provides a benefit, albeit a limited benefit, to a skilled driver. On the other hand it masks how slippery it is making less skilled drivers over confident. I would say, judging solely by my observations of most drivers out there, it's a net loss for most drivers.
4x4/AWD will help you descend a grade under control, but does not help you in an emergency stop.
Team O'Neill (a New Hampshire rally school) did some A vs B testing and actually found that a vehicle in 4WD would stop more quickly in the snow than the same vehicle in 2WD. I believe the theory posited had something to do with the brake bias being optimized for grippy, not slippery, conditions and the additional braking created by a locked transfer case. You can find the videos on YouTube if you want to see the original testing and follow-up reading and videos.
I still prefer a 4WD truck with snow tires in 2WD for most winter driving, but that may just be me.
I still prefer a 4WD truck with snow tires in 2WD for most winter driving, but that may just be me.
I assume Swede doesn't wear a helmet skiing or thinks avy airbags or avy gear is also useless. Things are grey, not binary black or white.
Let's get back to reality; if they offer you AWD you're not going to say, nah it's useless, give me the 2wd vehicle. THe AWD has some value...
A snow area rental WILL have an option for you for an AWD with 3PMSF tires. The issue is they're going to charge you an exorbitant price for it, up to double your original rental.
You probably would have a lower bill by driving to a tire shop and buying snow tires the day of rental over the upcharge they initially will present to you. This is because typically they are maximizing profit by preying on fear. Especially on families with a mother and small child, they will guilt the family into taking this "safer" choice. If you have the time and confidence, you could've negotiated on this. If you aren't coming to the counter as a family, they often won't even offer because they recognize it's a waste of time. Because some pay it, it's a market price and what the market will bear so they'll save that vehicle to snag someone else.
The reason for the tire deal is a car rental isn't in the business of maintaining or preparing cars. They get a fleet from the manufacturer, and the tires that come are the OEM tires from the manufacturer.
Some are OK, but some are marginal. The reason some are marginal is the purpose of an OEM set of tires is to sell the vehicle and keep prices low. Vehicles are often testdriven for purchase only during good weather, and buyers look for sports ability and NVH. These are the things that contradict with winter tires. By the time the vehicle is done with it's original set of tires, or even the 1st major service the vehicle goes to Auction and not in the rental fleet anymore.
Let's get back to reality; if they offer you AWD you're not going to say, nah it's useless, give me the 2wd vehicle. THe AWD has some value...
A snow area rental WILL have an option for you for an AWD with 3PMSF tires. The issue is they're going to charge you an exorbitant price for it, up to double your original rental.
You probably would have a lower bill by driving to a tire shop and buying snow tires the day of rental over the upcharge they initially will present to you. This is because typically they are maximizing profit by preying on fear. Especially on families with a mother and small child, they will guilt the family into taking this "safer" choice. If you have the time and confidence, you could've negotiated on this. If you aren't coming to the counter as a family, they often won't even offer because they recognize it's a waste of time. Because some pay it, it's a market price and what the market will bear so they'll save that vehicle to snag someone else.
The reason for the tire deal is a car rental isn't in the business of maintaining or preparing cars. They get a fleet from the manufacturer, and the tires that come are the OEM tires from the manufacturer.
Some are OK, but some are marginal. The reason some are marginal is the purpose of an OEM set of tires is to sell the vehicle and keep prices low. Vehicles are often testdriven for purchase only during good weather, and buyers look for sports ability and NVH. These are the things that contradict with winter tires. By the time the vehicle is done with it's original set of tires, or even the 1st major service the vehicle goes to Auction and not in the rental fleet anymore.
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