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Driving a 'people mover' van in snowy road conditions.

Swede

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I assume Swede doesn't wear a helmet skiing or thinks avy airbags or avy gear is also useless. Things are grey, not binary black or white.

Let's get back to reality; if they offer you AWD you're not going to say, nah it's useless, give me the 2wd vehicle. THe AWD has some value...

A snow area rental WILL have an option for you for an AWD with 3PMSF tires. The issue is they're going to charge you an exorbitant price for it, up to double your original rental.
You probably would have a lower bill by driving to a tire shop and buying snow tires the day of rental over the upcharge they initially will present to you. This is because typically they are maximizing profit by preying on fear. Especially on families with a mother and small child, they will guilt the family into taking this "safer" choice. If you have the time and confidence, you could've negotiated on this. If you aren't coming to the counter as a family, they often won't even offer because they recognize it's a waste of time. Because some pay it, it's a market price and what the market will bear so they'll save that vehicle to snag someone else.

The reason for the tire deal is a car rental isn't in the business of maintaining or preparing cars. They get a fleet from the manufacturer, and the tires that come are the OEM tires from the manufacturer.
Some are OK, but some are marginal. The reason some are marginal is the purpose of an OEM set of tires is to sell the vehicle and keep prices low. Vehicle is often testdriven for purchase only good weather, and buyers look for sports ability and NVH. These are the things that contradict with winter tires. By the time the vehicle is done with it's original set of tires, or even the 1st major service the vehicle goes to Auction and not in the rental fleet anymore.

Hey, I just want to give a realistic view on this. I live in Scandinavia and drive 3-4 months/year on winter roads. And 4x4 or AWD w/o winter tires isn’t really an advantage. Braking and handling en route compared to a 2WD with the same wrong tires is the same. People get lured into thinking a 4x4 with all seasons is a decent winter vehicle. It is not. For the record, I use a helmet. Back protector too. Personally I would think twice before heading out on a lengthier road trip on winter roads if my vehicle did not have winter tires — 4x4 or 2WD, because I have lots of winter driving experience.
 

NZRob

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Hey, I just want to give a realistic view on this. I live in Scandinavia and drive 3-4 months/year on winter roads. And 4x4 or AWD w/o winter tires isn’t really an advantage. Braking and handling en route compared to a 2WD with the same wrong tires is the same. People get lured into thinking a 4x4 with all seasons is a decent winter vehicle. It is not. For the record, I use a helmet. Back protector too. Personally I would think twice before heading out on a lengthier road trip on winter roads if my vehicle did not have winter tires — 4x4 or 2WD, because I have lots of winter driving experience.

It really depends where you live doesn't it. A 4x4 (esp. with high and low range options which give massive advantages in very low traction and descending on snow/ice) with all seasons is a really great winter vehicle in New Zealand. And I have lots of winter driving experience too.
 

François Pugh

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It really depends where you live doesn't it. A 4x4 (esp. with high and low range options which give massive advantages in very low traction and descending on snow/ice) with all seasons is a really great winter vehicle in New Zealand. And I have lots of winter driving experience too.
If you get snow and ice in New Zealand winters, you have lost all credibility with me. Just say'n.
 

NZRob

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If you get snow and ice in New Zealand winters, you have lost all credibility with me. Just say'n.

Well as I don't really want to bore other members or divert this thread further away from the OP with a long description of the nuances of winter driving conditions here, I can live with the loss of credibility with you. :)
 

mdf

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This is my experience also. I imagine the cost of replacing worn out snow tires that have been driven long distances on dry interstates would be a big turn-off for rental companies.

My theory is that they don't want any "extra stuff" that has to be associated with the rental cars that doesn't stay with the car. Think of the big keyring you get with ALL the copies of the key on it. To fit the model, the off-season tires would have to be stored in the car. That would eat into the luggage of space!
 

François Pugh

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You've not driven up to the Remarks or Coronet Peak on a snow day have you?
No, but I have driven across Rogers Pass (British Columbia) moments before they closed it due to heavy snow in a Chevette with all-seasons (albeit brand new ones), and north around Lake Superior during a snow storm (also in a Chevette, but by then with Michelin snow tires), and I have about 45 years of driving in Canadian winters with all types of cars, pickup trucks and SUVs and all types of tires. Anyone who says a vehicle equipped with all season tires is a good winter vehicle, let alone really great, either has a different definition of winter or a different definition of all-season tires than I do or doesn't know what he or she is talking about.
 

François Pugh

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My theory is that they don't want any "extra stuff" that has to be associated with the rental cars that doesn't stay with the car. Think of the big keyring you get with ALL the copies of the key on it. To fit the model, the off-season tires would have to be stored in the car. That would eat into the luggage of space!
Talking with the local rental shop in Sudbury Ontario, I learned that his company charges about $5 more per day (even in the summer) in neighbouring Quebec where winter tires are mandated by law in the winter season to cover the extra cost.
 

Swede

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It really depends where you live doesn't it. A 4x4 (esp. with high and low range options which give massive advantages in very low traction and descending on snow/ice) with all seasons is a really great winter vehicle in New Zealand. And I have lots of winter driving experience too.

I think you’re trying to slide (or skid) this into hill climbing or terrain driving which is not really driving safety on public roads inmo. Anyways.
If you loose traction you loose traction. Doesn’t matter if your vehicle drives on 2,3 or 4 wheels. And that is the issue. The problem with all (no) seasons, and god forbid summer tires in winter, is that the rubber mix in that type of tire can’t handle the cold. They get hard and as a result offer very little traction. As I said in my original post, I’m not familiar with the conditions of the route the OP intends on driving, but if it involves driving on winter roads on snow/ice (cold), my experience is that 4x4 and AWD without proper tires doesn’t make a road trip safer. Don’t get fooled into believing it makes your vehicle better at handling or braking. I lived in Mpls, MN for a few years, where lots of people don’t use proper winters in spite of real winters. I was flabbergasted at all the 4x4:s (and regular cars too) skidding around, crashing into objects and each other. In town and on the highway. I think something like 18-20 highway patrol cars (parked on the side on highway patrol duty) were run into one winter, because people on bad tires couldn’t stop in time.
 
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slowrider

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Traction tires, gearing, proper weight distribution and patience is what makes a good winter driving trip. Run it cool you can't ski if your in the snowbank.
 

Tom K.

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Hey, I just want to give a realistic view on this. I live in Scandinavia and drive 3-4 months/year on winter roads. And 4x4 or AWD w/o winter tires isn’t really an advantage. Braking and handling en route compared to a 2WD with the same wrong tires is the same. People get lured into thinking a 4x4 with all seasons is a decent winter vehicle. It is not. For the record, I use a helmet. Back protector too. Personally I would think twice before heading out on a lengthier road trip on winter roads if my vehicle did not have winter tires — 4x4 or 2WD, because I have lots of winter driving experience.

Well, I grew up in significantly longer winters than that -- I once delivered my morning paper route at minus 52 F -- and would disagree with this. When AWD/4WD started becoming a reasonable option, it was an ASTOUNDING improvement. Getting started, unplowed roads, steep hills (FWD sucks rocks here), and cornering (less "push" towards the ditch).

That said, I'd personally never run a vehicle without winter tires these days, but the OP doesn't really have that choice. When renting, the choice between AWD or not -- both without snow tires -- is a no brainer, no?!

My dear old dad explained winter driving to me succinctly as a kid: Drive like there is an eggshell between your foot and the gas pedal, and like your brakes don't really work very well -- because they don't!
 

Philpug

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Well, I grew up in significantly longer winters than that -- I once delivered my morning paper route at minus 52 F -- and would disagree with this. When AWD/4WD started becoming a reasonable option, it was an ASTOUNDING improvement. Getting started, unplowed roads, steep hills (FWD sucks rocks here), and cornering (less "push" towards the ditch).

That said, I'd personally never run a vehicle without winter tires these days, but the OP doesn't really have that choice. When renting, the choice between AWD or not -- both without snow tires -- is a no brainer, no?!

My dear old dad explained winter driving to me succinctly as a kid: Drive like there is an eggshell between your foot and the gas pedal, and like your brakes don't really work very well -- because they don't!
I recall renting a Volvo XC90 in SLC one winter, the truck had about 20K on it and the tires were near done. I wasn't overly concerned because the forcast was dry. As the week went on, the forcast changed and the XC was scary and I ended up returning it.
 

Wilhelmson

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4x4 with all season tires is way better than 2wd. Not even close. Try plowing up a hill in 2wd and switch into 4x4 and tell me there's no difference lol.

Yes, 4x4 with snow tires is way better than 4x4 with all season tires. We have altimax on our imprezza and it doesn't slip.
 

Swede

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Well, I grew up in significantly longer winters than that -- I once delivered my morning paper route at minus 52 F -- and would disagree with this. When AWD/4WD started becoming a reasonable option, it was an ASTOUNDING improvement. Getting started, unplowed roads, steep hills (FWD sucks rocks here), and cornering (less "push" towards the ditch).

That said, I'd personally never run a vehicle without winter tires these days, but the OP doesn't really have that choice. When renting, the choice between AWD or not -- both without snow tires -- is a no brainer, no?!

My dear old dad explained winter driving to me succinctly as a kid: Drive like there is an eggshell between your foot and the gas pedal, and like your brakes don't really work very well -- because they don't!

So you think AWD or a 4x4 with all seasons is a good winter vehicle? To me, going on a winter road trip w/o winter tires, sounds like a no brainer. I can only conclude there are a lot of people I don’t want to meet around the next corner on a winter road.
 

Ken_R

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This: https://ruggedvanrentals.com Problem solved :D


Screen Shot 2019-03-12 at 8.30.08 AM.png
 

Swede

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4x4 with all season tires is way better than 2wd. Not even close. Try plowing up a hill in 2wd and switch into 4x4 and tell me there's no difference lol.

Yes, 4x4 with snow tires is way better than 4x4 with all season tires. We have altimax on our imprezza and it doesn't slip.

Try breaking or do a rapid manuver to avoid a collision and see if 4x4 helps you. Dead serious. I own a 4x4 myself and it’s a dream to drive on winter roads ... with the right tires.
 

Wilhelmson

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I think you’re trying to slide (or skid) this into hill climbing or terrain driving which is not really driving safety on public roads inmo. Anyways.
If you loose traction you loose traction. Doesn’t matter if your vehicle drives on 2,3 or 4 wheels. And that is the issue. The problem with all (no) seasons, and god forbid summer tires in winter, is that the rubber mix in that type of tire can’t handle the cold. They get hard and as a result offer very little traction. As I said in my original post, I’m not familiar with the conditions of the route the OP intends on driving, but if it involves driving on winter roads on snow/ice (cold), my experience is that 4x4 and AWD without proper tires doesn’t make a road trip safer. Don’t get fooled into believing it makes your vehicle better at handling or braking. I lived in Mpls, MN for a few years, where lots of people don’t use proper winters in spite of real winters. I was flabbergasted at all the 4x4:s (and regular cars too) skidding around, crashing into objects and each other. In town and on the highway. I think something like 18-20 highway patrol cars (parked on the side on highway patrol duty) were run into one winter, because people on bad tires couldn’t stop in time.

It's really the ice under the snow that causes the most trouble. Last year I saw and F150 that must have been going 75 about 200 feet off the side of the highway. Point is with 4x4 all season tires is sometimes you have to slow down to 40/45 on the highway or 30 on the side roads and suck up the 8 hour drive. But then if you rev it up to 65 with your winter tires than it's as much or more of a hazard anyways.
 

Swede

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It's really the ice under the snow that causes the most trouble. Last year I saw and F150 that must have been going 75 about 200 feet off the side of the highway. Point is with 4x4 all season tires is sometimes you have to slow down to 40/45 on the highway or 30 on the side roads and suck up the 8 hour drive. But then if you rev it up to 65 with your winter tires than it's as much or more of a hazard anyways.

Well, there are quite a lot of testing done on winter vs all seasons ”stopping power” — on snow and pure ice too. So you don’t have to take my word for it. The difference is huge.
 

Wilhelmson

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Gotcha, that will at least alleviate all the traffic and overcrowding problems. No more driving to the ski mountain without awd and snow tires.
 

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