You turn the skis - vs - The skis turn you

[Uke]

Be The Ball

 

[cantunamunch]

So, with our finest skis, are they the instrument, or are we?

You need to see Kamisori Hanzo's training methods for interrogation specialists. It's in Sword of Justice, I think. Pretty much directly addresses the 'instrument' issue, so to speak.

Be The Ball

There is that too, and not in the pachinko sense either.

 

[Monster]

My skis turn themselves - I just give them emotional support and encouragement.

 

[cantunamunch]

My skis turn themselves - I just give them emotional support and encouragement.

Don't you just hate it when they go all ENTP on you?

 

[Uncle-A]

My skis turn themselves - I just give them emotional support and encouragement.

I want my next pair of skis to have ai so they can teach me how to turn.

 

[geepers]

Dunno... I guess we're lucky to hang out with folks who actually get physics so quick references are no big deal if needed or useful on the chair ride up. Lots of Boeing engineer folks, architects, lawyers, etc... on ski school staffs out here. Most of my favorite divisional staff folks have race backgrounds, so this is pretty straight forward. I will say though, I'm always amazed how some will always mangle, misconstrue, and misinterpret what has been clearly and susinctly stated, beautifully demoed, and understood by the rest of the group in a lesson or clinic* . It is what it is. Some folks just take awhile. It usually isn't a matter of basic intelligence, but simply ego standing firmly in the path of experimenting with the unfamiliar.

* both giving and receiving

Is it really that surprising?

Grab a group of pilots (or ex-Boeing folk) and ask them how a plane wing generates lift. You'll pretty quickly find a divergence of views on a subject that has been methodically and scientifically studied since the Wright Bros. Flying schools have been around from before WW1 and universities run courses on aerodynamics. You'd think there would be a common understanding of something as basic as how wings generate lift.

Compared to wings, skis, and in particular shaped skis, are fairly new on the scene and have received much less academic attention. Also there is a large athletic component to skiing with with the proficiency of a L3/4 instructor and an in depth knowledge of the physics is not necessarily going to help with that.

 

[geepers]

Don't you just hate it when they go all ENTP on you?

Hmmm... not too sure I want skis that:

• Chaff at routine and repetitive tasks
• Seek opportunities to increase their own influence
• May be competitive and argumentative and unreliable

Is there a better ski type?

 

[cantunamunch]

Hmmm... not too sure I want skis that:

• Chaff at routine and repetitive tasks
• Seek opportunities to increase their own influence
• May be competitive and argumentative and unreliable

Might do you a good turn in the lift line tho.

 

[Ross Biff]

I remember reading a study back in the straight-ski 80's comparing the leg strength of athletes from various different sport and if I recall correctly, soccer players and alpine skiers had the greatest rotary strength in the study. I find myself wondering if this has changed with the advent of shaped skis which require much less rotary input to get them to turn.

 

[cantunamunch]

I remember reading a study back in the straight-ski 80's comparing the leg strength of athletes from various different sport and if I recall correctly, soccer players and alpine skiers had the greatest rotary strength in the study..

You know, I remember reading something like that - except in connection to hamstring strength vs. body weight. Wonder if we can find it again.

 

[Monster]

I want my next pair of skis to have ai so they can teach me how to turn.

Yeah, well there were those race skis for a while about 10 years ago, Heads, I think, that had the electronic chips in the top sheets on the tails - "I-fiber" bs, or something, like the chip was supposed to be a capacitor storing energy while flexed and releasing it on rebound, hahahahaha. Too bad they were just printed images, lol. . .

 

[markojp]

Yeah, well there were those race skis for a while about 10 years ago, Heads, I think, that had the electronic chips in the top sheets on the tails - "I-fiber" bs, or something, like the chip was supposed to be a capacitor storing energy while flexed and releasing it on rebound, hahahahaha. Too bad they were just printed images, lol. . .

Yes, the chip was printed. The pezo thing (Kers) is still used in the Supershapes, race skis, and even the monsters do the 'dampening fibre' ...... I have NO idea if it really works or not. I do know they all ski very very well, and that's all that really matters. Effluvium core, depleted oobleck dampening.... whatever.

 

[markojp]

Is it really that surprising?

Grab a group of pilots (or ex-Boeing folk) and ask them how a plane wing generates lift. You'll pretty quickly find a divergence of views on a subject that has been methodically and scientifically studied since the Wright Bros. Flying schools have been around from before WW1 and universities run courses on aerodynamics. You'd think there would be a common understanding of something as basic as how wings generate lift.

Compared to wings, skis, and in particular shaped skis, are fairly new on the scene and have received much less academic attention. Also there is a large athletic component to skiing with with the proficiency of a L3/4 instructor and an in depth knowledge of the physics is not necessarily going to help with that.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'm always amazed at the degree of 'misunderstanding' that can take place even if it's inevitable.

 

[Uncle-A]

Yes, the chip was printed. The pezo thing (Kers) is used though in the Supershapes, race skis, and even the monsters...... I have NO idea if it really works or not. I do know they all ski very very well, and that's all that really matters. Fluvium core, depleted oobleck dampening.... whatever.

Yes, my Head Rally skis have the Kers chip.

 

[cantunamunch]

Is it really that surprising?

Grab a group of pilots (or ex-Boeing folk) and ask them how a plane wing generates lift. You'll pretty quickly find a divergence of views on a subject that has been methodically and scientifically studied since the Wright Bros. Flying schools have been around from before WW1 and universities run courses on aerodynamics. You'd think there would be a common understanding of something as basic as how wings generate lift..

I'll just put this right here...as a bit of a plain-language-explanation-guarantees-you-will-violate-causality treat.

 

[Monster]

Yes, the chip was printed. The pezo thing (Kers) is still used in the Supershapes, race skis, and even the monsters do the 'dampening fibre' ...... I have NO idea if it really works or not. I do know they all ski very very well, and that's all that really matters. Effluvium core, depleted oobleck dampening.... whatever.

Wait, what - yours were Effluvium? WTH? Mine were Unobtainium.

Oh yeah, FWIW, the ones we had were several pairs of the Head "Race Stock" slalom skis. They burned out in about 30 days and never gripped ice for doodly - didn't like 'em at all, i-fibre and faux chip notwithstanding. I still have a pair kicking around that I haven't yet cut up to add to the ski dissection library because they're ok rock skis. That said, the guy who does all my base grinding is on Supershapes atm and loves them.

 

[oldschoolskier]

A little late to this thread, both are valid statements and @Wendy summed it up from both opposite viewpoints.

I’ll add that it depends at what level you are as IMHO you learn most activities twice. The first is learning how to control the tools that are involved (ie you turn the ski over the skis turn you), and second letting the tools work for you to improve your performance (the skis turn you over you turn the skis)

Used without identifying this, leads to misconception as to how it meant to apply. Remember you both apply, but which hold importance for a particular lesson is the key.

 

[Fishbowl]

Is it really that surprising?

Grab a group of pilots (or ex-Boeing folk) and ask them how a plane wing generates lift. You'll pretty quickly find a divergence of views on a subject that has been methodically and scientifically studied since the Wright Bros. Flying schools have been around from before WW1 and universities run courses on aerodynamics. You'd think there would be a common understanding of something as basic as how wings generate lift.

Compared to wings, skis, and in particular shaped skis, are fairly new on the scene and have received much less academic attention. Also there is a large athletic component to skiing with with the proficiency of a L3/4 instructor and an in depth knowledge of the physics is not necessarily going to help with that.

Physics only matters those of us who don’t perform at a high level naturally and the coaches trying to teach us how to get there.

 

[Mendieta]

Yes, the chip was printed. The pezo thing (Kers) is still used in the Supershapes, race skis, and even the monsters do the 'dampening fibre' ...... I have NO idea if it really works or not. I do know they all ski very very well, and that's all that really matters. Effluvium core, depleted oobleck dampening.... whatever.

# BeginJumpIntoThreaDrift

Yeah, Jokes and cosmetics apart (including cheese stickers), this is Head's take on it:

https://www.head.com/us-US/sports/ski/technology/kers/

Do I think a company with the R&D budget and global reach of Head would enter the reputation risk of presenting a description of something that doesn't exist? Heck no.

Do I think it is possible that the piezo is there, as described, and does nothing noticeable? Certainly so.

Now, with my usual disclaimer that I'm a sucky skier with limited experience, I'll say that my observation is that it seems like this thing is doing something on my Rallies. I do feel sometimes the tail stiffen at the end of a turn, very clearly.

Now, am I willing to enter a debate on this point? Certainly not To @markojp 's point, at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. These ski really, really well. Works for me (TM)

# EndJumpIntoThreadDrift

 

[karlo]

Hmmm... not too sure I want skis that:

• Chaff at routine and repetitive tasks
• Seek opportunities to increase their own influence
• May be competitive and argumentative and unreliable

Is there a better ski type?

Substitute "ski" with "husband". My ears are burning.