What's so bad about leaning back anyways?

[MattFromCanada]

One of the fun things about the skis school locker room is the "I'm smarter than you" contests that seem to arise fairly frequently.

The topic that piqued my interest was the implications of leaning too far back.

One veteran instructor suggested that the biggest issue was that a skier leaning too far back would find that their skis would hook up in the tails and begin to launch them faster and faster down the hill.

Another instructor postulated that the biggest issue was that by leaning back, it makes it much harder to steer the skis because it's harder to edge one's skis to change direction if your ski is coming off the snow.

I can see the arguments for both, but I'm curious what the braintrust here thinks is the most important reason to not lean back.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Burning quads. ... but I’m not an instructor.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

Limits access to edging and rotary.
Requires much more energy.

 

[KingGrump]

Take a cruise through a set of steep big bumps. 'nuff said.

 

[Scruffy]

Leaning back is fine as long as you have a powerful enough boat and a good tow rope.

 

[Coach13]

It’s entirely the right move, especially if you have an urge to test out the latest ACL surgical procedures.

 

[geepers]

'Cause Franz says so.

 

[LiquidFeet]

The easiest way to haul the skis around for a back-seat skier, since the skis are barely bending if at all, is to rotate the upper body first and lean to the side. Once those are embedded habits, skill building stops. The body's useful ROM is fully occupied and there's no option for variation. There are other ways of making turns from the back seat, but this movement pattern is the most prevalent where I ski in New England.

Skiing aft while turning and tilting the upper body works in a limited way, but it severely limits the skier's ability to make short radius turns with grip. That rotating and leaning movement pattern typically keeps a skier on green and blue groomers. If green and blue groomers are all a skier wants to ski, staying in the back seat is fine.

Otherwise, those skiers need to get out of the back seat so they can put to use the more expensive front half of their ski. New terrain and more conditions will become their playground once they generate their turns with their legs, from the hip joint down, while reserving the upper body's activities for directing and controlling balance.

 

[Blue Streak]

Yeah, but millennials seem to think it looks cool.

 

[slowrider]

Don't forget to keep your hands to your sides for more coolness.

 

[Noodler]

If I'm going to pay for the entire ski, I'm going to use the entire ski...

 

[pchewn]

I'm all for leaning back -- when skiing switch.

 

[François Pugh]

The best way to haul the skis around for a back-seat skier, since the skis are barely bending if at all, is to rotate the upper body first and lean to the side. Once those are embedded habits, skill building stops. Many recreational skiers ski aft while turning and tilting the upper body to start and shape their turns. This movement pattern severely limits their ability to make short radius turns, which then limits them to green and blue groomers. If that's all they want to ski, staying in the back seat is fine.

Otherwise, those skiers need to get out of the back seat so they can put to use the more expensive front half of their ski. New terrain and more conditions will become their playground once they generate their turns from the hip joint down.

IMHO, the bolded part is the key factor. Gotta get some force to those front edges to turn.
As for as a short radius turn, meh, it's an attitude thing; I couldn't make a proper short radius turn for decades (my short radius turn still sucks), but that didn't stop me from skiing anywhere. I'll admit, by the looks of some folk I see skiing, it doesn't stop them from skiing things they shouldn't be skiing either.

 

[Slemers]

Leaning back is fine as long as you have a powerful enough boat and a good tow rope.

I agree getting fwd on a slalom waterski has the same effect as a aft cg on a pair of downhill skis

 

[Noodler]

IMHO, the bolded part is the key factor. Gotta get some force to those front edges to turn.
As for as a short radius turn, meh, it's an attitude thing; I couldn't make a proper short radius turn for decades (my short radius turn still sucks), but that didn't stop me from skiing anywhere. I'll admit, by the looks of some folk I see skiing, it doesn't stop them from skiing things they shouldn't be skiing either.

For many years I thought I had to do something "special" / something "more" to engage the ski forebody in a turn. Overly pressuring the front-half of the ski comes along with its own set of problems; mainly losing the tail of the ski in the turn and killing any chance of a clean carve.

My skiing took a major leap forward when I figured out that I was overdoing the movements to shift my balance fore. Skis are designed to provide plenty of pressure on the ski shovel if the skier can manage to keep their fore/aft management in check; the often repeated need to stay "centered".

 

[François Pugh]

Centered is not back. Just say'n.

 

[Crank]

Fun to sit back and "surf" some turns in hippy pow.

 

[Noodler]

Centered is not back. Just say'n.

My concern was the wording. When skiers hear that they "must get force on the front edges" they interpret that as trying to shove the front of the ski into the snow. I know I thought that was the case for too many years.

 

[Tony Storaro]

It is perfectly OK. Especially on steep reds and blacks. The farther back-the better. Keeps the medical rescue teams entertained. They love to drive their snowmobiles up and down the slopes all day.

 

[François Pugh]

Patrollers need practice too, but we would rather be skiing than filling out paperwork.