For those interested, I posted this in the Rehab section, on the matter why one might hip dump.
https://www.pugski.com/threads/not-hip-dumping-what’s-it-take.17049/
https://www.pugski.com/threads/not-hip-dumping-what’s-it-take.17049/
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
What is a hip dump?
- Thread starter karlo
- Start date
Yes, what @Swede said. And the pelvis is rotated dramatically outward, facing too much to the outside of the turn, in order to facilitate the excessive lowering of the hip, which then maximizes late in the turn, after the fall line, rendering the hip-to-snow irrelevant to the turn shape and necessitating a massive lunge of the upper body over the skis to start the new turn. The skier is massively aft, putting the knees at risk of acl injury should the turn bottom out. I used to do this, so I know.
Here's some high level hip dumping -- aimed at getting the ski porn product shot. Say 1:20.
Not taking away from anything there, but you can clearly see that the objective of getting the hip on the snow led to loss of the outside ski.
There's some great skiing in there.
Mike
Not taking away from anything there, but you can clearly see that the objective of getting the hip on the snow led to loss of the outside ski.
There's some great skiing in there.
Mike
How can you tell? What are the cues? Is it just because he's on his inside ski when the outside gets loose? Or could you see it going into the turn?
If his skiing is "wrong," then I don't want to be "right."
That’s an interesting thing to look at. Was that a hip dump?
Here’s the turn at apex, hip really low
And here’s the turn with entry and exit
So, as I’ve gathered from the contributions, a hip dump is a non functional lowering of the hip in an attempt to start a turn. One characteristic of a hip dump is it puts one aft, making it difficult and/or slow to exit a turn. Based on that, I think this is not a hip dump. He appears to me to be right over his skis, not aft, and balance on the outside ski, though I think it does lose grip and slides out (in the fourth non-zoomed photo). However, he is able to hold the turn with the inside ski and recover to the outside ski, which I don’t think can be done if he is aft. Coming out of the apex, it looks effortless, not like if one were aft. Would really like to read what others have to say.
So, in another thread, which is locked now, I was saying that doing a hip dump might be a good away to progress. That was before I better understood a hip dump. This is the type of turn I was suggesting doing. But, it’s clear to me now that this is not a progression. It’s what one strives to be capable of at the end of all progessions,
Marcus Caston. Rather, this is a progression, https://www.pugski.com/posts/399077/, Razie
Last edited:
What you are missing is the outside ski flapping in the wind as the body is too far inside and the subtalor joint rotating causing the platform angle to diminish.That’s an interesting thing to look at. Was that a hip dump?
Here’s the turn at apex, hip really low
View attachment 83775
And here’s the turn with entry and exit
View attachment 83781
View attachment 83776
View attachment 83777
View attachment 83778
View attachment 83779 View attachment 83780
So, as I’ve gathered from the contributions, a hip dump is a non functional lowering of the hip in an attempt to start a turn. One characteristic of a hip dump is it puts one aft, making it difficult and/or slow to exit a turn. Based on that, I think this is not a hip dump. He appears to me to be right over his skis, not aft, and balance on the outside ski, though I think it does lose grip and slides out (in the fourth non-zoomed photo). However, he is able to hold the turn with the inside ski and recover to the outside ski, which I don’t think can be done if he is aft. Coming out of the apex, it looks effortless, not like if one were aft. Would really like to read what others have to say.
So, in another thread, which is locked now, I was saying that doing a hip dump might be a good away to progress. That was before I better understood a hip dump. This is the type of turn I was suggesting doing. But, it’s clear to me now that this is not a progression. It’s what one strives to be capable of at the end of all progessions,
Marcus is a very high level skier. There are other instances in the video where the body mechanics for getting the video shot cause a breakdown in ski performance. For all three skiers.
Mike
Sure you do. Look at other segments of the video to see body mechanics that result in greater ski performance. For example the turns at 1:24.
Mike
Actually, there’s inmo very little hip dumping in the return of the turn-video. Kelly and Caston display great technique and skill. Sure, you can find frames where they are out of balance and ends up on the inside (momentarily), perhaps for show, but they are sending it too and mostly create ”legit” big angles. So no surprise.
Agreed. Still, there are a few instances. Fewer for Claire Brown than for Marcus and Robby.
Also impressive is that they are skiing on wide skis. And that Claire Brown can bend a Bonefide.
Mike
Also impressive is that they are skiing on wide skis. And that Claire Brown can bend a Bonefide.
Mike
I guess boys will be boys (can one say that nowadays?).
And Clair skis like a man ... When the skis are stiff, speed is your friend.
And more seriously, she has good technique and that makes a huge difference when you want to tighten the radius.
EDIT: worth noting in the video is that they ski in spring slush. Some like it, but it’s not the most reliable when you are going to create some big forces (speed+angles). My guess the reason why they chose wider skis. Edges don’t mean much in those conditions.
Last edited:
Here's a bit of note taking I took long ago from EpicSki. The words and images are all by jamt, who knows his stuff. Sorry about the poor quality of the text; I had to take it through two conversions to get it posted.
Last edited:
And here are some obvious hip dump images. The first showcases excess back-seatness, as the skier is almost sitting down on the snow. Both reveal through snow spray that they have excessive weight on the inside ski, and diverging tips are visible in the second image.
Last edited:
Here's another. No hip dump on left, yes hip dump on right. Note the A-frame on the right, along with diverging tips, both common signifiers of hip dump. The inward rotation of the inside knee is clear in the second image. This could be a result of over-rotation of the pelvis into counter which brings the inside hip too far forward and moves its knee inward. Or perhaps it's because of what jamt points out - inadequate usage of functional tipping at the subtalar joint with excessive reliance of rotation at the hip joint.
Last edited:
What I take from this is that if you lose your head you will hip dump.
I think in your examples it is very clear that these skiers use the inside as a crutch—a signum of hip dumpers.
