The Skinny on Skinning

[surfsnowgirl]

Freeride yes. Touring no.

Some Jesters are "Jester Sole IDs". Those can adjust to accept an AT boot or alpine (or Gripwalk).

Do you have pin boots? If so, get a tech binding. If not, you'll need a frame binding. Frame bindings are dirt cheap used these days because most everyone who tours often is on tech bindings.

Thanks. I'm completely green when it comes to this. My boots are Rossignol Pure Elite 120s. Probably my last year in this boot. Thinking of technica cochise boots next provided my picky a$$ right foot likes them.

This is all so overwhelming to me. I may just buy one of the used setups magic sells at the end of the season.

 

[Analisa]

@surfsnowgirl - I broke down different AT gear on a thread by @Mister Mann about boots (tailored a bit more towards western snow pack), but high level gear can be separated as:

-Skimo race gear (60ish underfoot skis under 3lbs a pair)
-Ultra light (80-90 underfoot and 4-6lb per pair, good for touring on a consolidated snowpack, longer spring tours, multi day traverses, skimo beer league)
-50/50 gear (85-110 underfoot depending on where you are, skis are 6-8lb per pair. Few sacrifices on downhill performance. Think skis like the Kore, Tracer, Sick Day lines. Backcountry brands also make in this weight class, generally on the lighter/slightly less stable side of the scale)
-Aggressive downhill gear (heavy as hell, 99% of the time it’s people who buy their downhill setup, but think about trying backcountry, and then really dislike it with such heavy gear. 1% of the time it’s a girl with Auras, Salomon 16s and inbound boots sprinting up Rainier. She must’ve had close to 30lbs strapped to her feet).

A pound or two sounds like a minor difference between skis, but it really affects the way the skis handle. A half pound on boots and a quarter pound on bindings is a marked difference. Going with a rental or a super low investment used pair gives you a reference point. Most rental fleets sit right on the line between ultra light and 50/50. If the uphill is a struggle bus and the downhill is fine, you’ll know you don’t want to go any heavier on your own setup and the end of season clearance at that shop could be perfect. When I got fitted, friends kept raving about the TLT5, but I put them on and they felt like ankle booties! I still don’t understand how people steer with them. I went in with the mindset of wanting an ultra light setup, but once I experienced the gear trying on boots and buying/mounting/selling a ski, I appreciate the weight. Even on ski mountaineering trips where I’m carrying over half my body weight in skis, camping gear, ropes, pickets, crampons and ice screws, I groan about it being heavy, but I don’t regret the purchase.

It gets a lot less confusing once you pin down one reference point and have an idea if it works for you and which direction you want to move.

 

[James]

So the old Kastle Fx84, 94 like 2013 and older, with double windowpane and skin clip on tail would be considered 50/50?

All I can say is if you go in a store and pick up some of the touring skis you'll be shocked how light they are.

2017/8 Monster 88- yikes wouldn't recommend that for surfsnowgirl for alpine.

Are you going up to go up or up to go down?

 

[jmeb]

Thanks. I'm completely green when it comes to this. My boots are Rossignol Pure Elite 120s. Probably my last year in this boot. Thinking of technica cochise boots next provided my picky a$$ right foot likes them.

This is all so overwhelming to me. I may just buy one of the used setups magic sells at the end of the season.

If the Cochise fits well, grab that now. Great "testing the skinning waters" boot as it has inserts for pin bindings, but skis like a full alpine boot.

 

[Analisa]

@James Yep! A friend of mine had those as a one ski setup for a few years after college. She thought they were a little narrow and piste-y for some tours, but they definitely got the job done.

Now whether they market it that way or not is a completely different story.

 

[James]

@James Yep! A friend of mine had those as a one ski setup for a few years after college. She thought they were a little narrow and piste-y for some tours, but they definitely got the job done.

Now whether they market it that way or not is a completely different story.

No, Kastle went the way of making it a 100% resort ski. Then they made a touring line, the TX. To me, they ruined the fx's when they did that. They had some of the best snow feel of any ski I've had.
Never did any skinning with them, just resort skiing. But I have a nearly ruined pair that I may try to fix for skinning.

 

[Slim]

@Mister Mann You'll probably be at an advantage having kicked turned in your XCD skis, but slope angle definitely complicates it!

Kickturns on AT gear are harder because you have a free pivot. The spring loaded pivot on XC gear keeps your tails up, and the lighter weight under foot and more flexible boot helps too.
All in all(I am also making this switch ;-), it’s a lot harder on AT gear, even if the skis are a hair shorter. Now if you are comparing beefy 190cm XCD with super light, 160 cm Skimo race gear,,,,

 

[Mister Mann]

Don't want to hijack thread, but have quick question. If I put a Tecton on my Salomon Q98, should I get the 100mm brake or something larger?

 

[jmeb]

Don't want to hijack thread, but have quick question. If I put a Tecton on my Salomon Q98, should I get the 100mm brake or something larger?

100 will work fine.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Found these on sale. Price is right.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/153300017377

 

[Analisa]

Not terrible. Skis are close to 9lbs, so pretty heavy and twin tip tails get a little weird with skin clips. Also looks like they've had a few mounts, so I'd consider the BSL they're set for now and where they'd need to move (Speeds don't have much/any adjustment range).

Bindings make up for some of the weight, but I'd keep safety/elastic travel in mind, as well as the brakes vs. leashes. The trade off between weight and safety is personal, as are leashes.

Price is good, but for the conditions & components, it doesn't scream humdinger of a deal.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

@Analisa Thank you. I'm taking an intro to skinning class at the mountain where our condo is at the end of February to educate myself. Then I'm going to start out being a skinning person once the lifts close. Our condo is on a mountain that's only open Th-Sunday so I'd like to skin when lifts aren't spinning during the week or after they are closed or when other mountains close. It will be generally soft conditions since I'm primarily targeting end of season. I don't have boots at this point but I'm just keeping my eyes open for a deal so in case the right one comes along....

I also have several pairs of skis and am considering turn one of them into a skinning setup

Meier Big Nose Kates 92 underfoot https://meierskis.com/products/big-nose-kate
Meier Wild Bills 98 underfoot https://meierskis.com/products/wild-bill
Praxis Freeride 104 underfoot https://www.praxisskis.com/discount-skis/custom-freeride-174/

Perhaps none of these 3 are practical skinning options and I'd also need bindings as well. I'm a thinker so always thinking of what could work.

 

[jmeb]

(Speeds don't have much/any adjustment range).

True -- but the bindings pictured are mislabeled speed radicals which have 25mm total adjustment.

 

[Analisa]

@surfsnowgirl Dreamy quiver! You might be on to something with the Kates. 6lbs & change is maybe slightly lighter than average, but if you already know you like them on the downhill, there's no reason to carry extra weight up. I can tell Cripple Creek carried them at some point, which is generally a good sign in my book that something has good uphill chops. The bindings/boots they recommend to go with it were the burliest pieces of tech bc gear for 2013/14. 92 seems to be a pretty versatile all-mountain/leaning off piste ski for the east coast (total conjecture from the chatter on here). And they're wide enough that they would they'd do a decent job if travel out west for tours.

Praxis skis are also a hit, especially in British Columbia. I see them most often in the Nelson/Fernie/Kootenay area, or friend who have them in the PNW all got hooked after spending a ski-bbatical up north.

Regardless, if you really love the way either of those ski inbounds, you could always pop in quiver killers on and be able to swap them out between inbounds & out.

 

[Ken_R]

@Analisa Thank you. I'm taking an intro to skinning class at the mountain where our condo is at the end of February to educate myself. Then I'm going to start out being a skinning person once the lifts close. Our condo is on a mountain that's only open Th-Sunday so I'd like to skin when lifts aren't spinning during the week or after they are closed or when other mountains close. It will be generally soft conditions since I'm primarily targeting end of season. I don't have boots at this point but I'm just keeping my eyes open for a deal so in case the right one comes along....

I also have several pairs of skis and am considering turn one of them into a skinning setup

Meier Big Nose Kates 92 underfoot https://meierskis.com/products/big-nose-kate
Meier Wild Bills 98 underfoot https://meierskis.com/products/wild-bill
Praxis Freeride 104 underfoot https://www.praxisskis.com/discount-skis/custom-freeride-174/

Perhaps none of these 3 are practical skinning options and I'd also need bindings as well. I'm a thinker so always thinking of what could work.

Awesome quiver!

I would just put these on the Kates: https://us-store.genuineguidegear.com/products/ion-10

But first, you need boots

 

[surfsnowgirl]

@Ken_R

Thanks for the link. Seens like my Big Mose Kate's are the winner. I pick them up saturday. They are insane amounts of fun on soft snow. It's funny i demoed them in spring soft snow in 2017 and didn't like them. Demoed them last April in the same conditions and went holy sh1t these are fun.

Yeah the pesky boots. I'm going to need new downhill boots next season so my bootfitter recommended technica cochise boots so i'm hoping my pain in the a$$ right foot likes them.

 

[Ken_R]

@Ken_R

Thanks for the link. Seens like my Big Mose Kate's are the winner. I pick them up saturday. They are insane amounts of fun on soft snow. It's funny i demoed them in spring soft snow in 2017 and didn't like them. Demoed them last April in the same conditions and went holy sh1t these are fun.

Yeah the pesky boots. I'm going to need new downhill boots next season so my bootfitter recommended technica cochise boots so i'm hoping my pain in the a$$ right foot likes them.

There are some awesome options available nowadays (touring/alpine hybrids) and the Cochise is one of them.

Besides the Cochise I would recommend you try the Atomic Hawx XTD 110 Women's , The Lange XT Free 110 W LV, and THIS one!

 

[surfsnowgirl]

My Meier Wild Bills' are currently binding less so I think I'll keep them flat and put some AT bindings on them. Probably won't get these out in this capacity til next season but just thinking ahead. I'll look for some used AT bindings, boots, skins for my WB's so by next winter they'll be ready to roll.

 

[pais alto]

This thread has evolved toward gear, but I’ve been meaning for a while to find a little primer on skinning that I put together and post it here. It’s somewhat dated (who tours on tele gear anymore...besides me? ) but I hope it’s useful:
https://www.pugski.com/threads/backcountry-instruction-northeast-us.5360/#post-124764

 

[James]

This thread has evolved toward gear, but I’ve been meaning for a while to find a little primer on skinning that I put together and post it here. It’s somewhat dated (who tours on tele gear anymore...besides me? ) but I hope it’s useful:
https://www.pugski.com/threads/backcountry-instruction-northeast-us.5360/#post-124764

Hah, I was told by the long time tele instructor, Biff, that AT stands for "Ain't Tele", and Randonnée is French for "Can't tele".