The Skinny on Skinning

[pais alto]

Hah, I was told by the long time tele instructor, Biff, that AT stands for "Ain't Tele", and Randonnée is French for "Can't tele".

AT is for “After Tele” and telemark is Norwegian for “wait for me”

 

[lisamamot]

Thanks. That is exactly what I'd want to skin at a resort. Perhaps a way to enjoy the mountain after it closes and I happen to be up there for the weekend or simply earning my turns when they are open. It's just another option to play. I've never gone skiing outside of a resort, one day.

Skinning at a resort also makes sense if you ski somewhere that goes on frequent wind hold. Mountain is still beautifully skiable if you can get there!

Look into an intro to backcountry course - I recently did a women’s only one with a couple ski buddies and despite the awful rental gear we had, we are hooked. I just put a frame binding on my Elysians and am looking into boot options. I bought skins at the shop that sold and mounted the bindings for me and they even cut the skins for me. I may try something very short with my downhill boots (or my old Lange XTs) just to see if it is as miserable as I expect it to be! The frame binding allows for that as an option.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Skinning at a resort also makes sense if you ski somewhere that goes on frequent wind hold. Mountain is still beautifully skiable if you can get there!

Look into an intro to backcountry course - I recently did a women’s only one with a couple ski buddies and despite the awful rental gear we had, we are hooked. I just put a frame binding on my Elysians and am looking into boot options. I bought skins at the shop that sold and mounted the bindings for me and they even cut the skins for me. I may try something very short with my downhill boots (or my old Lange XTs) just to see if it is as miserable as I expect it to be! The frame binding allows for that as an option.

Thanks. We have a condo trailside at Magic and sooo many people skin there it's insane. They do have a uphill course I've been meaning to take. I know I'll be hooked. What kind of frame binding did you put on your Elysians? I have a pain in the ass right foot but hoping I can pick up a boot that will make my foot happy. I'd like to get what my friend calls a dirtbag setup, as cheap as possible just to get started. My Wild Bills are flat right now so they are a perfect candidate. I mainly ski at Magic and Bromley and Bromley has been known to go on wind hold. I'd love to experinece the beautiful mountain and not be limited to chair lifts if they aren't running.

I'm glad you had a great experience and got hooked, a new, fun way to explore the mountain, yay.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Another thought I had was if I like my praxis Freeride skis I may turn my 92 underfoot big nose Kate's into my skinning ski and sell my Wild Bill's. My Kate's aren't fun in slick conditions so I might as well turn them into an AT setup and get a Santa ana 93 or something to replace them for alpine. I don't need both my kates and wild Bill's so this would be a way to reallocate what I have. These are all just thoughts right now so we will see what shakes out.

 

[lisamamot]

What kind of frame binding did you put on your Elysians?

I got the Marker F12 but the F10 would have worked too. I chose a ski I am comfortable skiing in variable conditions and that is on the lighter side.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I got the Marker F12 but the F10 would have worked too. I chose a ski I am comfortable skiing in variable conditions and that is on the lighter side.

Thanks. Both my Kate's and my Bill's are light. Terrible on ice, good on hardpack and great in ungroomed. My skinning plans are focused on softer snow days, primarily when the lifts aren't spinning.

 

[lisamamot]

What kind of frame binding did you put on your Elysians?

I got the Marker F12 but the F10 would have worked too. I chose a ski I am comfortable skiing in variable conditions and that is on the lighter side.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

My friend is buying a condo in our building and I know she'll be dragging my ass out next season so I want to be ready to go so time to set up some eBay daily searches so I can scout some deals.

What's the difference between a frame binding like the Marker F12 and the Salomon Shift. I think I've decided to turn my 92 underfoot Meier Big Nose Kates into a touring ski and will take this summer/fall to scout out lower cost gear so I can be set up by when the snow flies next season.

Also, what does everyone use for skins?

I understand boots are specific to the person but I don't have $1,000 to buy a full on fitted AT boot. I figured for the amount of times I'll skin I can hopefully get by with something used that I pick up. Can someone recommend a boot that would work. There was a technica boot I was looking at but that was when I was trying to get a boot that would work for alpine and touring. However, I spend most time on chairlifts and skiing downhill so my Rossi Pure Elite 120s really work for that so I'd like to just buy a cheap used AT specific boot.

 

[pais alto]

If you don’t have boots that are compatible with pin bindings, the Shift isn’t for you, they require tech-compatible boots. Other than that, the Shift will have a more comfortable and efficient stride when touring, and will be more solid underfoot when skiing downhill.

Black Diamond Ascension STS are pretty much the gold standard of climbing skins. I’d say start with those, and if later on you really get into it, look at their Glidelite Mix STS to save a little weight.

There are other brands of skins that often serve people well, like G3 and Pomona, but the BD skins are very, very reliable and durable, and their customer service is top notch.

Shop spring sales for deals on AT boots. If you’re not good with figuring out if boots are compatible with your foot, then you can set yourself up with a world of pain and frustration by getting unsuitable “cheap” boots...just like alpine boots.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

If you don’t have boots that are compatible with pin bindings, the Shift isn’t for you, they require tech-compatible boots. Other than that, the Shift will have a more comfortable and efficient stride when touring, and will be more solid underfoot when skiing downhill.

Black Diamond Ascension STS are pretty much the gold standard of climbing skins. I’d say start with those, and if later on you really get into it, look at their Glidelite Mix STS to save a little weight.

There are other brands of skins that often serve people well, like G3 and Pomona, but the BD skins are very, very reliable and durable, and their customer service is top notch.

Shop spring sales for deals on AT boots. If you’re not good with figuring out if boots are compatible with your foot, then you can set yourself up with a world of pain and frustration by getting unsuitable “cheap” boots...just like alpine boots.

.
Thanks. Any idea what boots are compatible with pin bindings? My alpine boots are rossignol pure elite 120s. Should I ask my bootfitter who's very familiar with my feet what the closet AT boot to this is? I just want to get in as cheaply as possible and then I will invest as I get more into this.

Thanks for the skin recommendations.

 

[pais alto]

Thanks. Any idea what boots are compatible with pin bindings?

Too many to list, but just about any AT boot these days has the fittings for pin bindings. The two metal dimples on either side of the toe - look at close up pics of an AT boot. There's usually a fitting on the back of the heel as well, though I suppose you don't actually need that with Shifts.

My alpine boots are rossignol pure elite 120s. Should I ask my bootfitter who's very familiar with my feet what the closet AT boot to this is?

Why wouldn't you? (S)He might not know though.

I just want to get in as cheaply as possible and then I will invest as I get more into this.

Understood, but if you're miserable with some boot brought blind, you're gonna have trouble getting into it at all.

If you do get serious about it, I predict you're eventually going to get pin/tech bindings, but if you've already bought frame bindings, that might be money wasted. Just sayin'. But if you're just going to dabble, then frame bindings will be fine.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Too many to list, but just about any AT boot these days has the fittings for pin bindings. The two metal dimples on either side of the toe - look at close up pics of an AT boot. There's usually a fitting on the back of the heel as well, though I suppose you don't actually need that with Shifts.

Why wouldn't you? (S)He might not know though.


Understood, but if you're miserable with some boot brought blind, you're gonna have trouble getting into it at all.

If you do get serious about it, I predict you're eventually going to get pin/tech bindings, but if you've already bought frame bindings, that might be money wasted. Just sayin'. But if you're just going to dabble, then frame bindings will be fine.

Thank you. I will check with nick too. He's my boot guy. When I was tossing around the idea of a multi purpose boot he suggested the technica cochise. I bet he'd have a suggestion or two knowing my feet.

 

[Wendy]

Thank you. I will check with nick too. He's my boot guy. When I was tossing around the idea of a multi purpose boot he suggested the technica cochise. I bet he'd have a suggestion or two knowing my feet.

A lot of touring boots are good for alpine, like my new boots this year. So you may not need 2 different boots if you find a hybrid boot that works for both.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

A lot of touring boots are good for alpine, like my new boots this year. So you may not need 2 different boots if you find a hybrid boot that works for both.

Thanks. Getting new alpine boots in the fall so I'll talk to Nick about options. That would be divine to have a hybrid boot that works for both.

 

[Slim]

Outdoorgearlab.com has a fairly comprehensive review of skins.

 

[jmeb]

Thanks. Getting new alpine boots in the fall so I'll talk to Nick about options. That would be divine to have a hybrid boot that works for both.

Keep in mind you'll be making a compromise one way or the other. Good alpine boots have heavier plastics that increase dampening and rebound. Touring focused boots use much lighter weight stuff that isn't quite as nice to ski fast on alpine gear. It's not an issue, just know if you're planning on doing more than 2k feet of climbing per day that something in the Cochise / QST / Pinnacle class (which all ski great) are not gonna be nearly as much fun as a dedicated touring boot. Boots in the 1400-1600g range are probably the sweet spot compromise wise if you spend a significant amount of time touring.

 

[jmeb]

Oh....and a little known skin brand in America -- Contour.

Their new hybrid skins are fantastic. That is, if you like a nice grip/glide ratio and you hate gloppy, overly sticky glue. The formula as of this year is really dialed. I've put 40 days on them this season, very little plush wear. Glue in great shape. So much easier to rip off or rip apart and work well across a huge range of temps (I've tested from -10F to 50F.)

 

[AngryAnalyst]

Keep in mind you'll be making a compromise one way or the other. Good alpine boots have heavier plastics that increase dampening and rebound. Touring focused boots use much lighter weight stuff that isn't quite as nice to ski fast on alpine gear. It's not an issue, just know if you're planning on doing more than 2k feet of climbing per day that something in the Cochise / QST / Pinnacle class (which all ski great) are not gonna be nearly as much fun as a dedicated touring boot. Boots in the 1400-1600g range are probably the sweet spot compromise wise if you spend a significant amount of time touring.

+1 for the 1400-1600 range being a sweet spot for a compromise pair. I have wide feet and I have never found a fitter that felt able to get me into anything like plug boot, but relative to alpine boots that fit my feet I can't say I notice a big difference between my alpine/at boots. The flex is a bit less progressive and the ride a bit bumpier but they don't feel sloppy or anything.

I would take more progressive if I could get it, stiffer per se is not as high a priority (wouldn't be bad but I'm not about to buy new boots just for that).

 

[jmeb]

The flex is a bit less progressive and the ride a bit bumpier but they don't feel sloppy or anything.

These are the primary differences for me. Both my Mtn Labs and Hawx Ultra XTD 130s are plenty stiff in all directions. What they lack is simply mass to smooth out the bumps, progression for really loading up a ski smoothly, and rebound out of turns. So basically the same sorts of trade offs you get with lightweight skis.

 

[ScottB]

I have the Hawk Ultra XTD's and I find the liner is much less "plush" or comfortable compared to my Lange RS140 liner. It also doesn't lock me into the boot as well. Maybe its the combo of the boot and liner together. Agree with Jmeb's post. I will consider an after market Intuition liner in the future. I don't have any issue skiing my Hawks at the resort for a day, they work very well. I just notice the difference between the two boots. I do tone down my speed and aggressiveness when in my Hawk's. They are so light going uphill, that the slight reduction in performance is worth it.