So what would you do with a first timer? (stratton)

[KingGrump]

I understand it’s very difficult, as a professional ski instructor, to comprehend that some people may not need, or want lessons to have an enjoyable and safe time on the slopes. Many people new to sports, especially those who have some natural talent, actually prefer to try the sport on their own first, and even view organized lessons in a negative light.

I’m not taking any from the great work that many instructors do, just saying that some people prefer to take their own route.

Regardless of what we think, she still has the choice.

FB, you're a dude, right?
Here you go.

Jason: Listen to LiquidFeet and to SurfSnowGirl and elenmac and the other women who post in your thread.

I will now tell you what think and I hope you won't be defensive. I could care less if you are offended.

You cannot teach a significant other.
Period.
Let her take a group lesson. Let her make friends on the chair lift with other first timer women in the group.
Let a professional ski instructor teach her.
Do not confuse her by contradicting what the instructor has taught her. Even if you are right. Even if you are a better skier than the instructor.
Because you are likely not a better instructor of beginners than that professional ski instructor.
And, because you cannot teach a significant other.
Period.

This is the talk I give my first time students during the group class wrap up:

"Skiing is a solo sport.
It is not a team sport.
I didn't turn your skis for you.
I didn't make them slow down and stop for you.
You did.
Look up the hill. You skied down that yourself.
You deserve the credit for that.
No one else does.

Now there is generally a difference between how men and women learn.
My wife skis better than me.
But when she started as a teenager, if her boyfriend at the time had taken her to the top of the mountain and said "You can do it!" And tried to show off how cool he was so that he could show he was a worthy mate, She would likely have slid down the hill on her butt, been afraid, and likely never skied again.
And never dated that guy again.

There would be more female skiers if their men didn't do that to them.

In my experience, women become technically better skiers.
Because they listen to instruction. They practice. And generally they don't move on to a harder terrain until they feel psychologically ready. Which is often well after they have become physically/technically ready.
Men don't understand that.

Men on the other hand, we do stuff harder than we are technically ready to do.
We have more fun, but we break more bones.

Skiing is a solo sport.
YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION TO TELL YOUR SIGNIFICANT OTHER THAT YOUR SKI INSTRUCTOR SAID THAT SKIING IS A SOLO SPORT AND THAT YOU CAN SAY "NO I DON'T WANT TO SKI WITH YOU. YOU CAN SKI WITH ME IF YOU WANT. BUT I DON'T HAVE TO SKI WITH YOU."

That single statement empowers the fearful skier.

So, give her power over her own learning process.
It is not your learning process.
It is hers.
By giving her the power to say "no" to you.
And respecting that.

Skiing is easy to learn with professional instruction.
She will be fine.

Jason, YOU are the one who has something more difficult to learn than skiing.

Good luck buddy.

 

[HardDaysNight]

“There is a common theme here and that is setting her up for success.” says the boss.

In order to do so consider getting her a full downhill racing setup, similar to yours. Together, head for the race course. At the top you shout “C’mon, follow me”, and take off. Works with athletic beginners every time. Ignore all the ridiculous, touchy-feely crap.

 

[Mendieta]

I understand it’s very difficult, as a professional ski instructor, to comprehend that some people may not need, or want lessons to have an enjoyable and safe time on the slopes. Many people new to sports, especially those who have some natural talent, actually prefer to try the sport on their own first, and even view organized lessons in a negative light.

I’m not taking any from the great work that many instructors do, just saying that some people prefer to take their own route.

Regardless of what we think, she still has the choice.

I am profoundly confused by this post. It doesn't seem to be answering @T-Square 's post. He said pretty clearly that a completely new skier has to learn some basic skills in order to be safe. He even said, explicitly, that it doesn't matter whether the one teaching is an instructor or a knowledgeable friend. Also, I am not sure why a professional instructor would have a difficult time understanding what a new skier needs in order to be safe.

Would we let people drive without someone explaining to them how to steer and how to break? That's all he was saying. So, no, figuring out how to ski without any instruction is not a valid choice, it can put the new skier and others at serious risk.

 

[Seldomski]

Don't do this on day 3... I know some can sort of muscle their way through ski instruction and accomplish feats of stupidity.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....
Also, make sure she has multiple really, really, really warm layering options. She likely will need more layers than makes sense to you and she, as a beginner, will not be moving as much as you. ....
I say this just having watched my colleague (from Florida) put on her down puffy/layers to leave work this morning. It's 40 degrees..........

THIS. People who have not skied before show up wearing jeans, thin knitted gloves or mittens, long scarfs, no goggles, no hat, no neck gaiter, three pair of thick cotton socks, long cotton thermals with foot loops at the bottom under those jeans, and a wool or (oh my) cotton coat that buttons up over a cotton turtle neck or two. This is a recipe for disaster.

Beginners fall often; their gloves/mittens get wet, their knees and thighs and butts get wet, the snow goes down and up their sleeves and into their gloves. Their hands and arms and legs get wet from the melting snow that seeps through their layers. They get snow up their waists and down their necks if the snow is deep when they fall. If what they are wearing is not made to repel snow, they will get miserably cold and wet very fast. Not to mention wind and just simply being underdressed. Their clothes, if they don't wick moisture, will still be wet the next day. This will require a visit to a laundromat to dry things out instead of après, or afterwards.

@Jason Kurth, do you have ski pants, ski jacket, goggles, neck gaiter or face mask, ski gloves or mittens, an extra helmet, and non-cotton wicking shirts and pant liners and ski socks that she can wear? If not, do you know someone who does?

 

[LiquidFeet]

....

"Training like a professional skier." I don't think so!

 

[Philpug]

I understand it’s very difficult, as a professional ski instructor, to comprehend that some people may not need, or want lessons to have an enjoyable and safe time on the slopes. Many people new to sports, especially those who have some natural talent, actually prefer to try the sport on their own first, and even view organized lessons in a negative light.

You are absolutely right, there are people who want to go out and figure it out themselves...but that is not how this thread started. The Thread Starter asked specifically about getting lessons for a skier that is new to the sport and that to an extent needs to be respected.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Ok, Jason, I take it back. Don't show her this thread.

Seldomski you are such a bomb thrower! That is not any first time terrain I have ever taken or have ever seen any fellow instructor take a first timer down. You should see how shallow our first time teaching terrain is! That youtube video is appropriately titled "Extreme Ski Challenge!" It is "blue" i.e., intermediate terrain. Not first timer friendly "green" terrain.

That said, that woman did a great job despite being over-terrained. Good for her. I will assume that her "instructor" was told to make it way more difficult than it had to be for entertainment purposes...*

It was way too difficult for educational purposes!

* (It was "entertaining" in a frightening kind of way, I guess. At least it scared me to watch.)

 

[ToddW]

I understand it’s very difficult, as a professional ski instructor, to comprehend that some people may not need, or want lessons to have an enjoyable and safe time on the slopes. Many people new to sports, especially those who have some natural talent, actually prefer to try the sport on their own first, and even view organized lessons in a negative light.

I’m not taking any from the great work that many instructors do, just saying that some people prefer to take their own route.

Regardless of what we think, she still has the choice.

FishBowl,

In many places, including Stratton, the choice you advocate for involves illegal acts. For example, for reasons of public safety a skier or rider must be trained in using a ski lift before riding it. A skier or rider must also be taught the rules of the road (responsibility code) before "driving" on shared snow. To do otherwise at Stratton is unlawful (and runs counter to common sense.)

This isn't purely academic. I know of ski area employees, one who had a hip broken and the other a back broken, who were seriously injured because of never evers trying to get off their first lift ride with no training. I temporarily lost a glove and a ski pole to a terrified first timer who had chosen to avoid instruction; she grabbed my ski pole in a failed attempt to stop but she did succeed in tearing some muscles in my hip.

The OPs girlfriend needs to receive basic safety instruction and learn some method to stop and some method to turn from a trained individual (not necessarily ski school.) After that, it's up to her whether she wants to participate in organized lessons or see where her innate athleticism takes her.

 

[Josh Matta]

FishBowl,

In many places, including Stratton, the choice you advocate for involves illegal acts. For example, for reasons of public safety a skier or rider must be trained in using a ski lift before riding it. A skier or rider must also be taught the rules of the road (responsibility code) before "driving" on shared snow. To do otherwise at Stratton is unlawful (and runs counter to common sense.)

This isn't purely academic. I know of ski area employees, one who had a hip broken and the other a back broken, who were seriously injured because of never evers trying to get off their first lift ride with no training. I temporarily lost a glove and a ski pole to a terrified first timer who had chosen to avoid instruction; she grabbed my ski pole in a failed attempt to stop but she did succeed in tearing some muscles in my hip.

The OPs girlfriend needs to receive basic safety instruction and learn some method to stop and some method to turn from a trained individual (not necessarily ski school.) After that, it's up to her whether she wants to participate in organized lessons or see where her innate athleticism takes her.

what law is being broken?

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Jason, one more thing. At least at our resort only persons in ski school have access to our magic carpet. The magic carpet provides access to very flat terrain for first timer training. The magic carpet is basically the same type of moving sidewalk found at larger airports. "Riding" it is less scary than using an elevated chair lift, and the runs on either side of the magic carpet are no longer than 60 feet ending with an upturned terrain stop at the bottom which also helps the student focus on skills which will be used on the chairlift served longer "Bunny" (green) runs.

 

[Tricia]

This is a few months away but I'll be racing at stratton and I might take a girl who has never skied or even seen snow before with me. She's expressed an interest in wanting to try it and is naturally athletic. I won't be able to ski with her at all the first two days.

So what would you do? Just throw her in a group lesson for two days? I don't know what the instruction is like there at all or how they progress a total beginner. Private lessons would be prohibitively expensive unless it was a short one. I have faith she could learn the basics quickly.

Back to the original post...
Check to see if they have a women's program or some kind of special that would make the day a little more fun than just a lesson.
I worked with a ski shop on the mountain at Northstar that had a 4Her program that included high performance rentals, 4 hrs of ski instruction and a wine/cheese hour at the ski shop. I used to give a little "take ownership of your ski experience" presentation.

 

[Tricia]

I understand it’s very difficult, as a professional ski instructor, to comprehend that some people may not need, or want lessons to have an enjoyable and safe time on the slopes. Many people new to sports, especially those who have some natural talent, actually prefer to try the sport on their own first, and even view organized lessons in a negative light.

I’m not taking any from the great work that many instructors do, just saying that some people prefer to take their own route.

Regardless of what we think, she still has the choice.

I was one of those people. I didn't know what I didn't know until I actually took some lessons.
I won't speak for you, but I know that taking lessons after 20 years of skiing as s boyfriend/self taught skier I wish I'd taken some lessons earlier.

 

[ToddW]

what law is being broken?

Vermont is one of the states that have incorporated a version of the skiers responsibility code into their laws.

 

[Mendieta]

This thread has run its course, and Jason's original question has been answered. We are locking it now. Thank you all for the contributions to the thread.