Skier responsibility code

[David Chaus]

^^^^^ FWIW I do have issues with my peripheral vision due to several rounds of laser treatment for diabetic retinopathy over the years. I do routinely scan several times during a run, looking over my shoulders to make sure no one is coming. But at the end of a run, in a spot where near-misses dot no usually happen,I literally got blind-sided. Or was blind to my surroundings. Or both.

Lesson learned. Ouch, he said, As he tried to breathe.

 

[Corgski]

It is quite frustrating and a bit scary to see entire threads where people dissect this very straightforward rule. If the other skier is ahead of you, it is your responsibility to avoid an accident, the end.

I suspect that where one skis can affect ones opinion on this. I understand where everyone is coming from, I am not a fast skier and do not want to be run over by anyone. But almost exclusive emphasis on the one rule does not work as well in smaller more crowded resorts. I have spent some time at a smaller local resort where people feel totally free to create hazards and skiers seem to do a remarkably good job at avoiding them. Why do kids on the bunny slopes have to take falls to avoid parents who insist on blocking the most natural line from top of the carpet? Or a parent bringing a group of kids onto a narrow Black Diamond a couple of whom have to slowly wedge their way down. Recently I had to dodge a snowboard instructor erratically spinning around on a fairly narrow green while waiting for her group, seeing it was a run used primarily by skiers graduating from the bunny slope she is betting on a level of responsibility which she was not showing. Supposedly all this is OK because the only rule that matters is that the person downhill/ahead has right of way?

And in that video, do you really have to congregate in the middle of what is apparently a black diamond? When enough people do that it destroys the enjoyment of a run pretty quickly. The guy made a mistake and immediately acknowledged that. I suspect life around that woman is far more hazardous in general than life around that guy.

 

[James]

OK, I had a collision with another ski instructor. It’s not like we didn’t both know the code. It was a morning warm up, not too many people around, and it was the last short pitch before the chairlift. I was skiing at a moderate pace but still working on arcing nice turns. Right at the apex of my turn, at the last second I see Peter, apparently at the apex of his turn from the other side of the slope. I know he wasn’t in front of me, I didn’t know he was anywhere near me, as I thought I was the last one of our group. He apparently didn’t see me out of his peripheral vision either. We must have looked like symmetry, arcing turns coming together at the apexes. Or Jerrys of the day. Or both.

Regardless, I was surprised, I found I had double ejected, and had to walk uphill about 10-20 feet to retrieve my skis. Didn’t seem too bad, a little sore in my abdomen. Shook it off. Before teaching a class I went into the restroom and checked for bruises (none) also to see if there was any kidney contusion (nope, pee was normal). I taught my morning class, but in the middle of it my lower left rib was getting painful. Took an ibuprofen at lunch, felt good enough to do a clinic in the afternoon. But very painful afterwards. I’m pretty sure I have a cracked rib. A snug bandage around my lower rib cage, a compression top, and Tylenol are now my best friends.

So, is there a takeaway? I don’t know. Who’s at fault? I don’t know. I was in control, and aware of my surroundings, I thought. Peter is a decent guy and we both checked in with each other throughout the day, riding the lift together several times.

Code or no code, shit can happen. Be careful, and don’t expect the code of conduct to protect you at all times.

That's a shape ski special. The code doesn't cover converging arcs. I've seen a bad collision of that type in a group I was with. It was also at the end of the run.

 

[Coach13]

That's a shape ski special. The code doesn't cover converging arcs. I've seen a bad collision of that type in a group I was with. It was also at the end of the run.

To me, that just falls under the category of sh!t happens.

 

[Blue Streak]

Skiers Responsibility is a big part of skiers education.
For many reasons discussed on this forum, most skiers have never taken a lesson, and many simply have no clue (full stop).
I always introduce the concept by asking why people think there are so many ski law billboards on I-70; it isn’t to sue the resorts, who are indemnified from all but gross negligence by Colorado law.
It’s to sue the reckless idiot who causes harm (or his parents) - which is as it should be.
There’s a difference between an accident and an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Jim McDonald]

poles pointed as weapons uphill with the grip braced against my pelvis

Hmmm...I'd say this could leave you with some serious internal injuries if some 200lb unguided missile impales itself on your poles. Point them up hill, for sure, but hold them away from your body (no straps) with just enough grip that they'll break away at about the time the tip enters the liver.

As for scuba, there's no laws/rules to stop some fool from buying the gear and heading underwater on his/her own with no training, just like so many we all see on our favorite ski hills.

And ski resorts getting serious about enforcement? That's a non-starter; they're not about to open themselves up to lawsuits for pulling passes.

 

[Tricia]

It is quite frustrating and a bit scary to see entire threads where people dissect this very straightforward rule. If the other skier is ahead of you, it is your responsibility to avoid an accident, the end. "I'm an expert and this guy suddenly veered right into my line". If you couldn't avoid them, then, you are not as much an expert as you thought, and you were too close to them. If you are bothered by the fact that you have to ski too slowly and avoid slower skiers ahead of you, you need to enter races, that would be more appropriate for your amazing skills, and have a course to yourself.

I'm going to quote you and Gary and leave these two posts for thought.
Both resonate with me.

I'm going to jump in here. While we can discuss who has the right of way, it doesn't help much if you have the right of way and a broken leg. Your leg is still broken. Slow skiers can improve their chances of safe skiing by following some simple rules. If the slow skier "stays in their lane" and is predictable, faster skiers will find it easier to ski past them. Too often I see the novice making tight turns and big turns, wandering from side to side without ever looking over their shoulder. It can be difficult to predict where they will be and pass them allowing ample room. When I take the grand kids, I tell them - if you start on the right side of the run, stay on the right side. You can go across the run but look over your shoulder first.
I'm just saying that having the right of way doesn't make the broken leg heal any faster.

 

[Wasatchman]

Here is a video my wife showed me where it isn't as clear cut who is at fault. Who is at fault here?

EDIT: my take is woman's fault since she should have seen downhill skier moving across into her line but thought I'd post as this is a grayer area than most. Regardless, video is eye opener that collisions aren't always so cut and dry whose fault it is.

 

[LiquidFeet]

That woman is blasting past all the other skiers on that trail, going much faster than all the others. She's passing them on the right of the trail. The one she runs into is ahead/downhill of her before she shoulder-slams him. It's her fault.

She needed to slow down and pass the crowd more safely, watching her flanks carefully, until she was beyond the crowd. That's when it would be safe to speed up. Looks like she didn't see the guy she hit until she was right there at his side. Had she been going slower, there maybe would have been a bit more time to react once she saw.

 

[Coach13]

Here is a video my wife showed me where it isn't as clear cut who is at fault. Who is at fault here?

EDIT: my take is woman's fault since she should have seen downhill skier moving across into her line but thought I'd post as this is a grayer area than most.

Not too gray at all imo. She was clearly the uphill skier with the vision to avoid this. In looking at the video though it doesn’t appear she even saw him as she took no evasive action to avoid. While she was skiing faster than others to me the mitigating factor here is she was not skiing out of control, she just didn’t notice or see the downhill skier. No way the downhill skier sees her and while they left their predicted line, I’ve learned the only thing predictable about a skier’s line is you can’t predict it. You have to be aware of and react to that line. But she was at fault.

I’m betting this type of collision is more common than not. There are plenty of folks skiing, driving, walking around stores, etc with what I call tunnel vision exhibiting little to no awareness of what’s going on around them nor the ability to use their peripheral vision.

 

[dbostedo]

That woman is blasting past all the other skiers on that trail. She's passing them. The one she runs into is ahead/downhill of her before she shoulder-slams him. It's her fault. She needed to slow down and pass more safely, watching her flanks carefully, until she was beyond the crowd. Looks like she didn't see the guy she hit.

View attachment 65562

Agreed. Completely her fault - I think this is very clear case, since she was the one passing, and was unable to pass a skier ahead of her safely.

 

[PeteW]

it is clear that pink can see the black comming across

 

[Andy Mink]

She was passing. Probably watching "her line" directly in front. She never saw the skier in black. You can see her initiating a left turn just before impact.

This is a reminder to watch more than just your line. Just like driving, riding a bike, or riding a motorcycle, tunnel vision can be painful.

 

[AmyPJ]

Yeah, she was honestly traveling a bit too fast for the number of people on that slope and the steepness of it.
Head on a swivel, and wait at the top for the slope to clear out if you want to zip down a favorite zippy place. That's what I do.

 

[Uncle Louie]

The woman in pink is clearly at fault, as in not even questionable.

Violation of Rules # 1 & 2 of the code.

 

[Wasatchman]

Yeah, upon further reflection it is very clear cut it is the woman's fault. She wasn't being a complete idiot though, but she clearly made a mistake not seeing the guy in black cutting over into her line. As @Andy Mink says, good lesson here to be aware of a lot more than your immediate line, especially on crowded slopes.

 

[dbostedo]

I thought it might be helpful to take a look at the FIS Rules of Conduct as well, which are used in place of the Responsibility Code... EDIT to add : in many places outside of North America.

FIS Rules of Conduct

1. Respect for others : A skier or snowboarder must behave in such a way that he or she does not endanger or prejudice others.
2. Control of speed and skiing or snowboarding : Every skier or snowboarder must move in control. He must adapt the speed and manner of skiing or snowboarding to his personal ability and to the prevailing conditions of terrain, snow and weather as well as to the density of traffic.
3. Choice of route : A skier or snowboarder coming from behind must choose his route in such a way not to endanger skiers or snowboarders ahead
4. Overtaking : A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement.
5. Entering, starting and moving upwards : A skier or snowboarder entering a marked run, starting again after stopping or moving upwards on the slopes must look up and down the slopes that he can do so without endangering himself or others.
6. Stopping : Unless absolutely necessary, a skier or snowboarder must avoid stopping on the piste in narrow places or where visibility is restricted. After a fall in such a place, a skier or snowboarder must move and clear the slope as soon as possible.
7. Climbing and descending on foot : A skier or snowboarder either climbing or descending on foot must keep to the side of the slope.
8. Respect for signs and markings : Skiers and snowboarders must respect all signs and markings.
9. Assistance : At accidents, every skier or snowboarder is duty bound to assist.
10. Identification : Every skier or snowboarder and witness, whether a responsible party or not, must exchange names and addresses following an accident.

I particularly like the way they phrase #3 and #4.

 

[Seldomski]

Thanks for sharing the video @Wasatchman

Pink clearly at fault, however, I seriously doubt pink thought so from her vantage point...

 

[Jacob]

I thought it might be helpful to take a look at the FIS Rules of Conduct as well, which are used in place of the Responsibility Code...

FIS Rules of Conduct

1. Respect for others : A skier or snowboarder must behave in such a way that he or she does not endanger or prejudice others.
2. Control of speed and skiing or snowboarding : Every skier or snowboarder must move in control. He must adapt the speed and manner of skiing or snowboarding to his personal ability and to the prevailing conditions of terrain, snow and weather as well as to the density of traffic.
3. Choice of route : A skier or snowboarder coming from behind must choose his route in such a way not to endanger skiers or snowboarders ahead
4. Overtaking : A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement.
5. Entering, starting and moving upwards : A skier or snowboarder entering a marked run, starting again after stopping or moving upwards on the slopes must look up and down the slopes that he can do so without endangering himself or others.
6. Stopping : Unless absolutely necessary, a skier or snowboarder must avoid stopping on the piste in narrow places or where visibility is restricted. After a fall in such a place, a skier or snowboarder must move and clear the slope as soon as possible.
7. Climbing and descending on foot : A skier or snowboarder either climbing or descending on foot must keep to the side of the slope.
8. Respect for signs and markings : Skiers and snowboarders must respect all signs and markings.
9. Assistance : At accidents, every skier or snowboarder is duty bound to assist.
10. Identification : Every skier or snowboarder and witness, whether a responsible party or not, must exchange names and addresses following an accident.

I particularly like the way they phrase #3 and #4.

I think the main reason that people cause confusion when it comes to rules 3 and 4 is because they only focus on the second or two just before a collision.

For example, the pink lady in the video above probably thinks the guy in black hit her from the side, because she's probably only thinking about what she saw a split second before the collision. But, anyone tracing her steps back several seconds can see that she was clearly overtaking him and didn't allow enough space to do it safely.

 

[Marker]

I thought it might be helpful to take a look at the FIS Rules of Conduct as well, which are used in place of the Responsibility Code...

FIS Rules of Conduct

1. Respect for others : A skier or snowboarder must behave in such a way that he or she does not endanger or prejudice others.

Thank you. I think this part of the code addresses those that think "pole joisting" is some sort of legitimate self-defense.