Skier responsibility code

[Chris Geib]

Well, it's not necessarily the "Downhill skier"...

 

[AmyPJ]

Let's not grapple semantics here. You know what I mean. The person ahead. Sorry. Typing quickly.

 

[Chris Geib]

Fair enough, Amy, if they are the "same" to you.

However, it is evident following these discussions that the distinction is not clear and is not simply semantics.

 

[James]

Well I heard two guys yelling at each other on the trail at Abasin. One guy said, "You know the rules! Whoever is going faster has the right of way!"

He didn't even have a red coat on.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Last Saturday I was with 2 students on a green trail. I'd pulled over to the side to wait for them so we could chat before proceeding to the next section. Out of nowhere this jacka$$ comes FLYING out of the trail that merged into where we were. His response was to shout out to me 'NICE PLACE TO STAND". I was dumbfounded and shouted back at him that trails were merging and he needed to slow down. This to me is exactly what is wrong with those types of skiers on the mountain. We had the right of way but he's out of control and yells at us. I continued to silently curse at him wishing for karma to take care of him before he hurts someone. I used the scenarios as a teaching example to my students as to the right of way and skiers code. This just infuriates me so.............................

 

[Coach13]

One guy said, "You know the rules! Whoever is going faster has the right of way!"

I think this thought is more common than we care to admit. Makes me wonder the source of such an ignorant stance on skier safety.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....The solution, I guess, would have been for folks to proceed single file so there was never anyone beside anyone else. OR for me to have moved much further away, so that there was no chance of our turns coinciding as they did. But in a lesson of 9 students as we had at the time (before it was pared down to 4 the next day) that can be a bit tough when you're trying to stay with the group.

As an instructor I've been numerous training sessions where the group is allowed to make its way downhill in any way they choose, doing something they were instructed to do. This can easily produce a stampede. It is never safe when the number of participants is over 3, and given the width of the trail maybe not even for 3 skiers. One trainer never ever had us do this. He would do "call-down," having us proceed downhill one at a time, while the rest of the group waited for his raised pole to trigger the next person. For the trainer, that approach for each skier being watched in isolation so the trainer knows how each person is doing. It's an advantage for the participants because they are never side-by-side. This is what I most often do in my lessons.

Alternatives that also avoid the stampede problem are:
--circle-ski
--synchronized skiing in pairs, one pair at a time
--follow the leader's line
--call-down can be done with the trainer at the top, in the middle, or at the bottom.

 

[SBrown]

Of course once you add in the "menace factor" it is even more convoluted

Clearly he was the one in the Red Coat.

 

[KevinF]

@LiquidFeet what is “circle ski”?

 

[LiquidFeet]

@LiquidFeet what is “circle ski”?

The group members go down one at a time, doing whatever the leader is having them do.
The first skier makes three turns, then stops on the side of the trail.
Second skier goes down three turns beyond the first, stops on the side of the trail below #1.
Third skier goes down, stops on the side of the trail three turns below #2. Etc.

As the last skier skis down, the person at the top of the line waits three turns and heads down again.
This way the whole group proceeds downhill in an orderly fashion but the pace is not slow; there's no down time.
It's faster than call-down (which is when the trainer heads down first, demonstrating whatever they are doing, stops, and raises a pole to call down each skier at the top).
Circle-ski allows each member to see what all the others are doing as they follow whatever directions the trainer told them to do.
Circle-ski has been known to lead people to feel anxious since they are on display.
Same can be said for call-down.

 

[tball]

More importantly, call the state police. Ski areas have no responsibility to report accidents - which is why we have shit for stats.... With state police involved you have an incident report.

Great advice, which reminded me of an idea I had with while skiing with our small children and being buzzed.

How about amending the Skier Safety Act adding a duty for ski areas something along these lines?

• Any ski area with more than 500 skiers on any given day will employ a law enforcement officer to enforce and investigate violations of this act. An additional law enforcement officer will be employed for each additional 2500 skiers.

I think an officer skiing around handing out $1000 fines and pulling passes would be an excellent deterrent for the ass hats.

If concerts and bars can afford to pay off-duty officers, I'm pretty sure ski areas can too. I'm more than happy to pay more for our passes, if necessary.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Great advice, which reminded me of an idea I had with while skiing with our small children and being buzzed.

How about amending the Skier Safety Act adding a duty for ski areas something along these lines?

• Any ski area with more than 500 skiers on any given day will employ a law enforcement officer to enforce and investigate violations of this act. An additional law enforcement officer will be employed for each additional 2500 skiers.

I think an officer skiing around handing out $1000 fines and pulling passes would be a great deterrent for the ass hats.

If concerts and bars can afford to pay off-duty officers, I'm pretty sure ski areas can too. I'm more than happy to pay more for our passes, if necessary.

I agree. I know Killington yanks passes and I wish other places did this. I think if people started getting fined and ultimately educated about the code then perhaps we can get some order on the slopes again.

 

[fatbob]

... orrrrrr, perhaps it isn't as straightforward as many think.

This.

Problem with pontificating threads like this is that they usually seemed to be posted by someone who views one rule as an absolute above all others. None of this matters - you are preaching to the converted here. If you really want to do something take it direct to resort CEOs and GMs as by and large resorts don't seem to give a shit about seriously enforcing or educating re dangerous skiing and bad habits. Head on a swivel, protect yourself, don't ski in gangs, avoid blue run hero racetracks. Expect people are out to hit you.

 

[WynnDuffy]

I think the code should be enforced and passes pulled. These days with Ikon etc., pulling passes has a lot of sting. There are a lot of parents out there who are really worried that their 60 pound kids are going to be clobbered by a 220 pound guy straight-lining a trail at 50 mph. The resorts don't care, and I'm mystified why they don't.

• Why don't lift towers have large signs with one rule from the code on them? A big sign saying "Skier's Responsibility Code #2: People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them." as the second to last tower on every lift would go a long way.
• Why don't some resorts brand themselves as family friendly by aggressively enforcing the code and pulling tickets/passes? Others may go for the dude crowd and be more relaxed and other people will learn to stay away.

Obviously the resorts aren't run by dummies, so I guess the conclusion is they've thought about it and decided they make more money with the current status quo.

 

[fatbob]

Passive education goes nowhere IMV. Vail had napkins everywhere with the code on but still plenty of clueless behaviour on the slopes including on occasion their own staff. If you are going to educate make it direct on the basis of observed bad behaviours and make it carrot not just a stick.

 

[martyg]

Great advice, which reminded me of an idea I had with while skiing with our small children and being buzzed.

How about amending the Skier Safety Act adding a duty for ski areas something along these lines?

• Any ski area with more than 500 skiers on any given day will employ a law enforcement officer to enforce and investigate violations of this act. An additional law enforcement officer will be employed for each additional 2500 skiers.

I think an officer skiing around handing out $1000 fines and pulling passes would be an excellent deterrent for the ass hats.

If concerts and bars can afford to pay off-duty officers, I'm pretty sure ski areas can too. I'm more than happy to pay more for our passes, if necessary.

I would love that. Unfortunately NSAA has the interests of ski areas in mind, not skier safety. They are among the group that has made it more difficult to bring suit against ski areas. Bars, and driving while intoxicated.... We, as a society, have come down hard on that. Until public opinion forces law makers to put laws in place that hold ski hills responsible, the skiing public is SOL. The National Forest Service, in the West, has also been a party to this.

Anyone wishing to receive law briefs and updates, I'd encourage you to follow attorney Jim Moss, and / or his excellent web site RecreatiionLaw. Few people are as well versed as Jim. He's been in the industry, as an attorney, since day one of his career.

I have Nordic tracks a few minutes from the house. I can take my dog, and the skate skiing has been so stupendous that it makes me forget about alpine. I also don't get fat from skate skiing.

 

[Seldomski]

Scuba has a different model -- basically you must get certified to dive and have recent dive experience to go on dives. PADI is the governing body and enforces the education requirement. It's a matter of life and death for you and other divers as well since a novice is very dangerous in that environment!

I don't think skiing is as extreme, but some basic awareness of the rules should be standard part of the experience. Maybe to rent gear you have to answer some multiple choice questions about the code? Or maybe have a PSIA skiing license that is issued and needs to be presented to buy lift tickets? To get one you have to complete an online course, covering typical resort signage and safety issues. Maybe renews every 5 years? IDK.

 

[Coach13]

I don’t see this getting better short of the resorts policing and clipping passes on a regular basis and I’m not so sure how realistic that is. Just at our small Mid-Atlantic resorts, the description of “out of control skiers and boarders” (even with no ill intent) fits A LOT of the folks on the hill. There isn’t hardly a trip to ski here that I don’t get hit or darn near get hit somewhere on the hill, in the lift area, etc. These resorts would have no skiers if the clipped all those passes.

 

[Sibhusky]

These resorts would have no skiers if the clipped all those passes.

I'm assuming Camelback still has "rangers" that do this. They used to clip tickets, make you watch videos, etc. and they still had 8000-12000 skiers on a Saturday.

And the carnage in the ski patrol clinic was like a mid city riot had taken place.

This was 15 years back. Maybe things have improved. Yeah, I doubt that.

 

[Andy Mink]

You know the rules! Whoever is going faster has the right of way!"

This is a thought process, or lack thereof, that makes me wonder if the faster, overtaking, skier realizes the is no way for the slower skier to know they are skiing slower until the faster skier passes them.