They are permitted via NFS and/or NPS depending on where they host trainings. They just don't have an exclusive permit like lift served areas.
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Rates for Independent Ski Instruction?
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They are permitted via NFS and/or NPS depending on where they host trainings. They just don't have an exclusive permit like lift served areas.
My understanding for Australia is somewhat different than the 2 numbers quoted. Trying to recall a conversation I had over drinks back in March, the rate varies with such things as hours taught in that resort this season (bumps up after 75 hours), the number of seasons that the instructor has worked at the resort and the instructor certification.
I have heard that Japan pays a dollar more per hour for each certification - even if it is a snowborad certification for a ski instructor.
In any event instructors world wide should hire the lawyers who negotiated the French rates!
Can anyone explain why I can't go to the PSIA website and search for instructors?
Students could then review credentials and decide which instructor to request by name when booking a lesson.
Instructors would be rewarded for their experience and efforts at certification, at least to some degree, since they get paid more when someone requests them by name (as I understand it from the outside).
The next step down this path would be instructor reviews, websites, blogs, email newsletters, CRM, etc. It is almost 2019. This seems possible within the current legal framework and completely in control of PSIA as a way to get the best instructors paid more. Just an idea.
Students could then review credentials and decide which instructor to request by name when booking a lesson.
Instructors would be rewarded for their experience and efforts at certification, at least to some degree, since they get paid more when someone requests them by name (as I understand it from the outside).
The next step down this path would be instructor reviews, websites, blogs, email newsletters, CRM, etc. It is almost 2019. This seems possible within the current legal framework and completely in control of PSIA as a way to get the best instructors paid more. Just an idea.
That's a great idea! I'll pass it on. Should be interesting after a couple of beers.
There seems to be some unnecessary fear mongering going on.
If your older (say 8+ years old) is stupid enough to ski off into a strangers van, it's time for some chlorine in the gene pool.
I expect an older kid to be able to read a trail map and not get lost at a ski resort. At 8 I was riding the subway all over Montreal.
I know insurance companies like to overcharge (I was for a time a sole-practicioning P.Eng.) , but I think with enough instructors the rates would not be that bad.
Ski school is a resort cash cow. They will not give it up easily.
If your older (say 8+ years old) is stupid enough to ski off into a strangers van, it's time for some chlorine in the gene pool.
I expect an older kid to be able to read a trail map and not get lost at a ski resort. At 8 I was riding the subway all over Montreal.
I know insurance companies like to overcharge (I was for a time a sole-practicioning P.Eng.) , but I think with enough instructors the rates would not be that bad.
Ski school is a resort cash cow. They will not give it up easily.
I don’t know about the PSIA site, but I know that places like Trip Advisor and social media sites like Facebook are good resources for reviews and may be a better place to check out rather than simply looking for the highest credential.
I work with many junior instructors, some still in HS who are great with kids although they lack any certs beyond the in-house training (done by PSIA). Any of us who work in the industry will know of a level 3 instructor who might be the last person we would put with our kids. Not that they are bad instructors, quite the contrary, but that high school racer or park rat will just make that connection.
Remember after safety with kids it’s all about the fun. If they are having fun The learning part just happens.
I think there is a little truth in that statement (even though it's used as cover for the competition aspect, which I agree is the main concern).
AirBnB and Uber provide some relevant examples... there was hesitation, push-back, legal fighting, etc. in a lot of places because they were upsetting established businesses and providing more competition. Part of that was because, for instance, someone could call their hotel an AirBnB and skirt all of the hotel regulations and taxes - some of which are there to protect consumers of the product. So there was some wrangling, and shutting down of what were, essentially, hotels that claimed to just be someone's personal AirBnB. Likewise with Uber, there is vetting/rules/regulations that are, in part, there to protect consumers, that aren't enforced by getting an Uber.
What provides the consumer protection in AirBnB and Uber cases, and why they're upsetting to parts of the industry, is the internet and feedback capability that it brings. Uber drivers need to avoid negative press in order to keep getting work. Some bad AirBnB reviews can likewise be detrimental. If ski instructors did manage to make in-roads in teaching outside the resort structure, a similar type of arrangement/website might be able to serve a similar purpose.
What's next? Only rental skis from the ski area allowed on the hill? As I understand it, "outfitters" need to have permits to rent rafts, kayaks, horses, packs, etc for use on NFS lands.... so do the local rental shops also need these "outfitter" permits? And why is this "bootleg" rental of equipment allowed, but not "bootleg" lessons?
"Outfitting. Renting on or delivering to National Forest System lands for pecuniary remuneration or other gain any saddle or pack animal, vehicle, boat, camping gear, or similar supplies or equipment. The term "outfitter" includes the holder's employees and agents."
https://www.fs.fed.us/dirindexhome/fsh/2709.14/wo_2709.14_50.doc
"Outfitting. Renting on or delivering to National Forest System lands for pecuniary remuneration or other gain any saddle or pack animal, vehicle, boat, camping gear, or similar supplies or equipment. The term "outfitter" includes the holder's employees and agents."
https://www.fs.fed.us/dirindexhome/fsh/2709.14/wo_2709.14_50.doc
I think resorts would be within their rights to do that. They'd be crazy to do it, but they could.
I hear you @Josh Matta.
I am fearful of resort consolidation because of the impact on competition. Not good for employees, and ultimately not good for consumers either. I've tried to make the argument on other threads, but never felt I was very effective.
I feel you brother.
I am fearful of resort consolidation because of the impact on competition. Not good for employees, and ultimately not good for consumers either. I've tried to make the argument on other threads, but never felt I was very effective.
I feel you brother.
There seems to be some unnecessary fear mongering going on.
If your older (say 8+ years old) is stupid enough to ski off into a strangers van, it's time for some chlorine in the gene pool.
I expect an older kid to be able to read a trail map and not get lost at a ski resort. At 8 I was riding the subway all over Montreal.
I know insurance companies like to overcharge (I was for a time a sole-practicioning P.Eng.) , but I think with enough instructors the rates would not be that bad.
Ski school is a resort cash cow. They will not give it up easily.
… and, from what I understand, child kidnappings at ski areas are an epidemic on the rise. If we want to spread fear based on the facts, nine times out of ten it will be someone in the family, a close family friend and most often the parent themselves that will abuse a child. Whether involving abuse of any kind or even murder, statistically, a child’s parent is significantly the most dangerous person they will ever come in contact with. Yes, it is actually safer for a child to go off with a complete stranger than to spend the day with their parent. 60% of children murdered under the age of 5 are killed by their parents. You guys are kind of scary if you ask me. I’m not sure I would trust a parent with my dog. That said, if you are a Craigslist ski instructor who wants to show me the magic carpet in the back of your van, I am not going with you! Though, if there is also a puppy, I would at least consider having a quick look. A little good faith candy up front would not hurt. I like chocolate.
And invested many millions into infrastructure.
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I think the NFS is kind of a red herring as there are many resorts on NFS land that have the exact same rules while at the same time, I think that the resorts in Washington that allow concession ski schools are on Forest Service Land.
And I am sure all these craigslist instructors are declaring all their income to the IRS....
But it says renting ON or delivering TO. Ski rental, or any other rental, is allowed if you do it somewhere else, then take the rented item to the USFS land yourself.
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And I am sure all these craigslist instructors are declaring all their income to the IRS....
Yeah, that is one of the stupidest things out there. in the US, anyone can guide backcountry skiing and climbing,whether or not they are actually certified guides or not., but only the company with the permit can guide in a certain national forest/park.
Imagine if we had that for doctors: you don’t need a medical degree to practice here, you just need to work for a company that applied for the permit.
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There seems to be some unnecessary fear mongering going on.
If your older (say 8+ years old) is stupid enough to ski off into a strangers van, it's time for some chlorine in the gene pool.
I expect an older kid to be able to read a trail map and not get lost at a ski resort. At 8 I was riding the subway all over Montreal.
I know insurance companies like to overcharge (I was for a time a sole-practicioning P.Eng.) , but I think with enough instructors the rates would not be that bad.
Ski school is a resort cash cow. They will not give it up easily.
Yes, it seems some people are taking the liberty to assume we are horrible parents who are going to sign our kids up with the first person online who charges $50 and hour.
No, not for that. But perhaps for violating the law and encouraging/enabling others to do so as well. You may not agree with the law (and I don’t) but that doesn’t mean it is right to violate it.
Mike
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