Kids U-12 racing ski questions

[K2 Rat]

I know I am late to the party and don't have time to read all of the many posts, so I am sure all this is covered already. I run the u12 program at Mount Snow Academy in Vermont. We are a Fri/Sat/Sun program and serve as a feeder for our full-time academy. We keep it small with 11 kids and 2 coaches and some might say we are more serious/motivated than most u12 programs, but that is up for debate. Anyway, my 2 cents:

1) No need for racer and trainer skis, just one pair of SL and GS and hopefully a pair of twin tips.
2) No equipment rules for u12's -- I Iike to err on the shorter side for SL ( chin to mouth height) and maybe err on the longer GS side for some depending on ability to head height plus 5cm (although that is not really that long). Let's make SL easier for this age group with shorter size as they are just learning and sets are normally tight. For the better kids, it is amazing how they can over ski a head height GS ski even though they weigh about 65 pounds.
3) We don't bother with inspection skis and nobody in Southern Vt does -- plenty of time for that in u14's. Although we will inspect with skis on wrong feet if track is icy. I am not too concerned with wax at this age group and can safely say we never won or lost a race due to wax. Meaning we inspect on our race skis and I don't recommend expensive fluoro waxes, although some parents can't resist
4) Brands -- as you can see from the pic, we are on a variety of brands and have success on all. I would try to go with newer models and I think you will find some decent deals on this years skis starting real soon. Don't have to have the same brand for SL and GS, but my kids always do.
5) Boots -- they need to be able to crush them inside when the boots are warm. 10 out 11 of the kids do not have cuff adjustments and that poses a bit of an alignment issue. We have a lot in Lange 65's and those seem to be pretty cuff strong and harder to get the kid centered. None of my kids ever needed boot work as far as fitting, just some alignment.
6) Twin Tips -- we spend at least 50% of our time out of gates ( much to the disappointment of some kids and all parents) , but moguls, trees , steeps, jumps are so important at this age. Powder is real important, but we have not gotten much this year. But we do the majority of our directed free skiing on race skis.
7) Cross-blocking -- i think there was some small discussion here on this. In Vermont, all of our SL races are either panel or stubbie until the very end of the year with a couple tall pole ones. Not sure what other sections do. We take it pretty slow in introducing tall poles and have not come close to running a full length tall pole SL course yet. Don't let all the pole guards fool you in the pic !! This was taken on Feb 10th and it was our first taste of tall poles mixed in with stubbies and some leaning tall poles. We train weekends at Hermitage Club and this pic is taken at about 1pm as we were heading out for an afternoon of free skiing with a typical hermitage Saturday crowd in line behind us --- but Hermitage is the subject of another forum here ! Still don't let a couple of the kids cross block much yet as they gates are not in their way yet.
8) Post race free skiing -- love that you mentioned you went off free skiing after a race. You should be doing that regardless of the results. Amazing how much time is wasted on race days and I try to get kids to ski more on race days, but it is not easy.
9) Parents -- no matter how many times we have gone over to leave the coaching to us, we have a few that have to try to coach their kids. It does not help to tell a child as they are going out for their run to keep their hands up and it goes in one ear and out the other. Saying "have fun and i love you" is much more effective.
10) u10's -- what i like to see in kids that I get from u10's are : angles, movement, and pole plant and the love of skiing anything in any condition

Bottom-line -- u12's is such an important skill development time period and time out of the gates is where they can learn how to ski. I wish we had more big mountain terrain to ski like Mammoth. Go huck off something , rip some chutes and bowls and have FUN !!

 

[S.H.]

7) Cross-blocking -- i think there was some small discussion here on this. In Vermont, all of our SL races are either panel or stubbie until the very end of the year with a couple tall pole ones. Not sure what other sections do.

MVC was all stubbies this year (and last year too); I think there's a tall-pole "festival" sometime in March

 

[Muleski]

@K2Rat, great post and great pic. Lots of smiles. Nice work.

Also noted 100% LEKI poles. HaHa.

 

[Rudi Riet]

In Vermont, all of our SL races are either panel or stubbie until the very end of the year with a couple tall pole ones. Not sure what other sections do. We take it pretty slow in introducing tall poles and have not come close to running a full length tall pole SL course yet.

That's a smart approach, and I wish more USSS divisions would do this. In Pennsylvania it would be really tough to pull off, given most of our races in our very short season are combined U10/12/14 (and sometimes U16, too) on the same course, so we end up using the full-size rapdigates most of the time. And for training, it's tough to get the real estate to set separate courses, though we use stubbies a lot thee days (even for the older U16s and U19s).

But this whole post is gold - thanks for posting, @K2 Rat!

 

[K2 Rat]

MVC was all stubbies this year (and last year too); I think there's a tall-pole "festival" sometime in March

Our tall pole events are only a Open u14/U12 SL at Bromley on March 10th and then Sugar SL in April. So, SVC does not have any tall pole u12 events either

 

[K2 Rat]

@K2Rat, great post and great pic. Lots of smiles. Nice work.

Also noted 100% LEKI poles. HaHa.

I know, they all have to have LEKI !! And some don't put their name on them so they are always trying to figure out which are theirs .....

 

[hbear]

Colorful duct tape bands does wonders to seperate poles and add a touch of flair....

 

[Muleski]

A Sharpie is also pretty basic equipment!
At one point almost every girl on my daughter's college team had a couple of pairs of white Hestra mitts. No names and I bet ALL the same size! Seriously, how old are you guys? Nobody has a Sharpie? HaHa!

 

[BGreen]

Yeah, let’s add put your name on everything to the list of general advice. A few years ago, one of my athletes had to tackle another girl out of her skis in the start of a race. This past week, another one ran a SG training run with a parent’s powder poles because his disappeared at the base. That story gets even better, but suffice it to say, that’s not what where you want your focus at the start.

BTW if you are an athlete or parent of an athlete who lost Phenix soft shell shorts, probably at the Aspen slalom, I have them. I found them in my clothing bag the next week and don’t know how they got there.

 

[K2 Rat]

Yeah, when my kids were racing I had their name on everything with sharpies and duct tape and/or colorful electrical tape on their poles ( everyone had the same Swix poles at that time). Even on their ski boots. I still have my name on most of my stuff.
At our first race this year, one later running boy left the start for a free run but clicked into his teammates Atomics and skied away. The kid missing his skis was going crazy at the start and when we found his teammates Atomics there, we figured it out. Some suggested he run on the other Atomics and he smartly said no way since they were willing to slip people in whenever due to a lift issue. The kid without skis’ brother ( also a u12) took the risk of missing his start and raced down to find his brother’s skis. He found his teammate and said “ give me those skis” and rode the lift carrying them. When he delivered the skis, I asked where is Ollie? Well, he was now at bottom without any skis ! We did find someone else to ski down to deliver those skis. When I was clicking in one of our Academy’s u14 , the bindings were way too big and I had to quickly adjust the bindings to fit the boots. I asked whose skis are these “ My older brothers and my Dad said to use these since they had a fast tune on them”. Never skied them before but she went on to podium since I was able to adjust them and thus she did not have to use her untuned inspection skis. Can’t make this stuff up !
Ok, I said we might be more serious than some at my Academy, but I did not say we were smarter. Needless to say, we had an emergency Parent’s meeting !!

 

[hbear]

Funny. We actually had one of our parents scramble to another mountain 45mins away because their daughters got their boots mixed up (one was racing at one mountain and the other being a different age training at another). Luckily for the younger daughter she could fit into her sisters bigger boots....older sister not so much. One of our parents grabbed another kids free ski (on a rail system) so the younger daughter (with the older sister’s boots) could do inspection (in twin tips).

Had another set of parents get skis mixed up and sent to the wrong places (car pools) apparently it was hilarious seeing the U16 boy inspecting in his sisters 140cm SL skis. Good thing they were one a predrilled plate so relatively easy to adjust.

Had another occasion where one of the girls clipped into one of the boys skis accidentally at the start...they have the exact same ski/binding setup and apparently BSL was pretty close as well. She laid down a great time, when she got back to the top to get her shorts the boy was furious....he clipped her out....didn’t say a word and got in line for his race. His run....not so good.

Lots of funny stories.

We have special little markings on my daughters skis and she does not let them out of her sight at the top of course.....apparently she thinks her dad puts on a pretty good tune. .

Lessons to the kids, take responsibility for your stuff and don’t rely on your parents....

 

[ScotsSkier]

Not just kids! happens with Masters as well (although we can blame it on senior moments!) I had 2 of my athletes get caught out at the start of the season at mammoth, both on Atomic SL but one on 155 and one on 158....so when the 158s went missing the guy was not happy at having to race on 155s!! And with so many FW Masters on Rossis, you have to look carefully around the start corral!! Fortunately for me, not too many of our racers that run a 24 shell so difficult for most to get into my skis!

 

[Rudi Riet]

Lessons to the kids, take responsibility for your stuff and don’t rely on your parents....

Amen!

A racer on my team caused a bit of an uproar last season when the father of the athlete took responsibility for bringing the skis for an away race. It was a U19 GS, and prior to this season the minimum requirements for GS skis were 183cm/30m for women, 190cm/35m for men. Dad brought his athlete's older, 175cm/17m radius skis, the athlete won the first run on said skis, and a coach from another team took note.

Said athlete won the race (ran the second run on legal skis, borrowed from a fellow racer, and won that run as well), but was forced to forfeit all state team qualification points from the result.

Dad got an earful that night - and for the rest of the season. The athlete had slipped on being a self-reliant racer with regard to equipment - lesson learned.

So start early on this! And use the duct tape/electrical tape to mark poles and skis. Or get custom high-durability name labels from an outfit like VeloInk or Victory Circle Graphics - they wear like iron and are very distinctive.

 

[ScotsSkier]

I know, they all have to have LEKI !! And some don't put their name on them so they are always trying to figure out which are theirs .....

that is one thing I can never quite understand, just shows the power of marketing!! I see way too many bent/broken LEKI poles to ever want to use them. Whereas the swix race composite poles seem to take a whole lot more abuse without problems. And seeing several athletes lose their poles during a race at the Olympics didn't endear me to them either!!

 

[Rudi Riet]

I see way too many bent/broken LEKI poles to ever want to use them. Whereas the six race composite poles seem to take a whole lot more abuse without problems.

Yup!

I always wow my younger athletes by using 28 year old Scott World Cup Racer poles (the black and neon yellow ones) or 30 year old Scott World Cup Racer poles (the original lime green and orange ones, these with a homemade GS/SG bend done with a conduit bender) that are still perfectly fine with no dents after decades of abuse. They're aluminum, they wear like tanks.

My "youngest" set of Scott racing poles is 17 years old, and they're still just fine and have been used by some of my athletes for SG events.

Yet they all want the "cool factor" of the LEKI poles with their gimmicky clip-grip. They won't go out of their way to order the Scotts, even though they are far more durable and only negligibly heavier. C'est la vie...

For what it's worth: any athlete younger than a U12 on my team is not allowed to use LEKI click-strap poles because they tend to lose them.

 

[Muleski]

Some of it is the "Mikaela and LV factor." I want her poles! That marketing works!

Telling them that LV uses conventional grips and straps might wreck some of the allure. HaHa.

Our son had an affiliation with Komperdell which started about 10 years ago. Daughter was with Swix for a LONG time. Nice products. and they wear like iron. In the college years I saw a ton of broken LEKI's. I think because so many were in use. All on deep discount or free.

I also hear of parents insisting that there child have a POC helmet, even if they don't fit the kid's head shape, because "they are safer." Another great marketing job when the brought the helmets to the market in the US.

 

[K2 Rat]

When I get to use poles, I have Gabel GS and Komperdell SL, which are both about 20 years old. Both work just fine ! Yes, the MS marketing factor is big -- I had 2 girls ( and one boy ??) this year that had to get the pink LEKI poles when they came out. It is interesting that I don't see my u12's being as concerned with what skis they wear. It is actually a good thing that most support our local race oriented shop which carry Atomic, Dynastar and Fischer. Surprising that only 2 are on Atomic and I would have thought more would want to be like MS and MH. Or that no one went elsewhere for Head's. It is also interesting that the boys seem to know every NFL stat, but when I ask who won last Sunday's WC slalom, they have no clue. They would have trouble naming past Marcel, Ted, Lindsey and Shiffrin. I send out TV coverage info to the parents and encourage them to watch with their kids. A few watched Kitzbuhel and Schladming and thought is was awesome. But they do not make it easy to watch/find WC coverage here in the States. I wish Ski Racing was still a magazine that you could hold. When I was young ( or not so young) , I would read SKI, SKIING, Ski Racing mag cover to cover. I know we are in a digital age, but these kids are not going on-line to read Skiracing.com . Having something to hold and look thru at pictures and read a bit I think would spark more interest in following the sport more closely. I still have quite a few copies......

 

[Rudi Riet]

I wish Ski Racing was still a magazine that you could hold. When I was young ( or not so young) , I would read SKI, SKIING, Ski Racing mag cover to cover. I know we are in a digital age, but these kids are not going on-line to read Skiracing.com . Having something to hold and look thru at pictures and read a bit I think would spark more interest in following the sport more closely.

Hear hear! The digital version of Ski Racing is a shell of what the magazine once was. While I appreciate the cost factor of a printed magazine these days, and while the premium content on SR is often quite good, it's not the same. I'm always irked when they print USSS press releases verbatim, when they employ writers (some of whom are certainly on freelance contracts) who could write a better article that dives a bit deeper.

I always anticipated the mail holding Ski Racing, SKI, and Skiing - those were the things to read for this young ski racer. Over time, all three slipped - with Skiing folding a few years back. SKI doesn't go in depth on much these days. They used to have wonderfully detailed technical analysis of technique (including racing), technology (blow-apart drawings of bindings and skis were always fascinating), and resorts. The typeface was small and dense. The ads were there, but there was more actual magazine copy than ads. Each issue was over 120 pages. It was wonderful.

And yes, online resources are more nimble than any print mag could ever be. But still, the print mags are missed.

Also missed: books about ski racing technique. These have also succumbed to online resources.

</threadhijack>

 

[K2 Rat]

Also missed: books about ski racing technique. These have also succumbed to online resources.

totally agree. I read: How the Racers Ski, Painta Su and World Cup Ski Technique over and over again.

When I was little, "How the Racers Ski" was like the bible. Warren was so instrumental in everyone's development back in the 70's . RIP !

Olle Larrson and James Major's book was incredible with the use of photomontage. I can't even imagine how many times I looked at that book and still like looking at it. Wish they used better glue or was a hard cover, because mine is completely falling apart.

 

[BGreen]

@K2 Rat there’s some good stuff in that Georges Joubert book too.