IKON the Lightning Rod

[Lorenzzo]

I was thinking maybe we should all call it Arapa-Bas ... kind of has a nice rhythm to it, while still sounding really stupid.

While I've heard or seen "A-Bay" several times, it always seemed weird to me ... sounds too "cute". Too much like "totes" instead of totally, or "sitch" instead of situation.

Now that they aren't affiliated with VR maybe they should be called Free-Bas.

 

[VickieH]

Now that they aren't affiliated with VR maybe they should be called Free-Bas.

Free-Basing on Mother's Day?

 

[New2]

After getting off the Carpenter chair, we headed over to the Sterling chair. There is no skipping the Sterling chair if one wants to ski Bald mountain. The lift corral was packed. Well beyond the ropes. But it was a very organized chaos. Probably about a 20 minutes wait. We headed for the singles line again. My wait was about 1-1/2 minutes. Impressive.

A trick they showed us when I did the Mountain Tour is that you can in fact skip Sterling if you want to ski Bald Mountain. The McHenry cat-track over by the bottom of Homestake takes you to the bottom of Wasatch, then continues as Sultan Connection to Sultan. It's not thrilling skiing, but sloped enough that it wasn't miserable poling either... almost certainly better than a 20-minute lift line.

But, of course, going in the singles line is a good solution, too, @KingGrump

 

[Started at 53]

Rode on the chair with an Ikon family today, only two as there were two of us, but there were 5 of them altogether and it was there 2nd visit this year.

Not sure what was going on today, but we had a 3-5 minute wait every time (maybe 3 or 4) we rode Carpenter. Success is my favorite run, but we exited the area to one of my previously mentioned by not disclosed locations and skied blue runs top to bottom rarely seeing another soul and it was ski to the chair every time.

 

[HardDaysNight]

Good to know because I am a Jerryand have never skied the place. I've usually just heard it referred to ABasin but saw some people call it ABay on Pugski and I used that term since it was easier to get silly autocorrect to work with that than ABasin.

But knowing what you said, if I do ever ski it I'm going to loudly tell people in line that this ABay place is great.

Of course you haven’t skied it! Why would anyone with his pick of the great Utah resorts slum it with a million front range yahoos just so you can post how tough the parking is?

 

[Supergaper]

Really? Really? 14% puts you over the top and fills your roads to bursting?

Strewth.

The last few years comment should have been an indicator. How can Ikon affect your crowds before it exists?

Yo chunk brains why don't you look at the weather and snow patterns and think about where any skier is going to want to go when the season is NOT crap.

Eh, NVM entitled stewpidity . They will be yelling for Ikon add ons themselves the next time their home Hill is a bone yard.

Except a closer examination would show that Ikon passes showed up in mid January after our base cleared 60". Not one person in Jackson even noticed the Ikon effect until after MLK day. So first 40 days of little Ikon Pass, then another 30 with a ton, the actual load since MLK has to be more like 30%.

2 years ago we were the only resort with snow for much of the year, this year not so much.

20 year pass holder, 250-300 trams a year, mid day hard pack 3-4 car wait is not what I have ever seen, new tram or old.

Pass price went up for locals, as did parking passes, I'm a contractor who can fit in 2-3 hours a day before, after or during work hours, if I want to ski I pay the
new higher prices without complaint, but not a new 30% load on my hill. My pass is $1500 in August, my parking pass is $999, which now is useless
(non guaranteed) between 10-1:30 because the lots are full 7 days a week.

My Ikon benefit at other resorts is nothing. I get not one benefit, thank god MCP gets me 50% off if I want to go to one of their resorts.

The fact that everyone I know in resort management and marketing is so tight lipped about every metric they used to share with me- RFID is so
great for analysis, points to the fact that this a point of serious contention, after being promised a less crowded experience in exchange for high pass and ticket
prices I feel a little betrayed.

So chunk brain, come on out and take run or two with me, and lets discuss at length during the 45 minutes it takes to get up the hill.

 

[Goran M.]

oh, well ...

BTW, I never skied Jackson Hole ... How big is that hill if it takes 45 minutes to get to the top ?

 

[Philpug]

oh, well ...

BTW, I never skied Jackson Hole ... How big is that hill if it takes 45 minutes to get to the top ?

I think he is referring to the lift lines also being longer and adding to the time it takes to get to the top.

 

[onstar1]

Except a closer examination would show that Ikon passes showed up in mid January after our base cleared 60". Not one person in Jackson even noticed the Ikon effect until after MLK day. So first 40 days of little Ikon Pass, then another 30 with a ton, the actual load since MLK has to be more like 30%.

2 years ago we were the only resort with snow for much of the year, this year not so much.

20 year pass holder, 250-300 trams a year, mid day hard pack 3-4 car wait is not what I have ever seen, new tram or old.

Pass price went up for locals, as did parking passes, I'm a contractor who can fit in 2-3 hours a day before, after or during work hours, if I want to ski I pay the
new higher prices without complaint, but not a new 30% load on my hill. My pass is $1500 in August, my parking pass is $999, which now is useless
(non guaranteed) between 10-1:30 because the lots are full 7 days a week.

My Ikon benefit at other resorts is nothing. I get not one benefit, thank god MCP gets me 50% off if I want to go to one of their resorts.

The fact that everyone I know in resort management and marketing is so tight lipped about every metric they used to share with me- RFID is so
great for analysis, points to the fact that this a point of serious contention, after being promised a less crowded experience in exchange for high pass and ticket
prices I feel a little betrayed.

So chunk brain, come on out and take run or two with me, and lets discuss at length during the 45 minutes it takes to get up the hill.

Im just curious, were you born and raised in Jac? or are you a transplant thats been living in JH for 20 years? JH is a small town and I doubt the locals can afford to ski at JH. Most of the locals would be at GT. Seems to me, most of these "locals" are transplants.

 

[Philpug]

Im just curious, were you born and raised in Jac? or are you a transplant thats been living in JH for 20 years? JH is a small town and I doubt the locals can afford to ski at JH. Most of the locals would be at GT. Seems to me, most of these "locals" are transplants.

We see this at many of the resort towns. Much of the "Keep Squaw True" push is done by some east coast transplants. It is the new norm.

 

[cantunamunch]

Except a closer examination would show that Ikon passes showed up in mid January after our base cleared 60". Not one person in Jackson even noticed the Ikon effect until after MLK day. So first 40 days of little Ikon Pass, then another 30 with a ton, the actual load since MLK has to be more like 30%.

2 years ago we were the only resort with snow for much of the year, this year not so much.

20 year pass holder, 250-300 trams a year, mid day hard pack 3-4 car wait is not what I have ever seen, new tram or old.

Pass price went up for locals, as did parking passes, I'm a contractor who can fit in 2-3 hours a day before, after or during work hours, if I want to ski I pay the
new higher prices without complaint, but not a new 30% load on my hill. My pass is $1500 in August, my parking pass is $999, which now is useless
(non guaranteed) between 10-1:30 because the lots are full 7 days a week.

My Ikon benefit at other resorts is nothing. I get not one benefit, thank god MCP gets me 50% off if I want to go to one of their resorts.

The fact that everyone I know in resort management and marketing is so tight lipped about every metric they used to share with me- RFID is so
great for analysis, points to the fact that this a point of serious contention, after being promised a less crowded experience in exchange for high pass and ticket
prices I feel a little betrayed.

So chunk brain, come on out and take run or two with me, and lets discuss at length during the 45 minutes it takes to get up the hill.

So, in summary, you confirm my point - IKON pass holders arbitrage their days against snow conditions just like season pass holders do. Then you call me a name and then you point to a 45 minute wait.

First, that wait is commonplace at both destination and local resorts during peak season. There have been longer waits from Breckenridge to Attitash to Whitetail. People like to ski when the conditions are good.

Second, your true beef is with the price of the season pass product. If the crowding is bad enough to lower the value of the pass product, then that needs to be renegotiated.

 

[Lorenzzo]

Except a closer examination would show that Ikon passes showed up in mid January after our base cleared 60". Not one person in Jackson even noticed the Ikon effect until after MLK day. So first 40 days of little Ikon Pass, then another 30 with a ton, the actual load since MLK has to be more like 30%.

2 years ago we were the only resort with snow for much of the year, this year not so much.

20 year pass holder, 250-300 trams a year, mid day hard pack 3-4 car wait is not what I have ever seen, new tram or old.

Pass price went up for locals, as did parking passes, I'm a contractor who can fit in 2-3 hours a day before, after or during work hours, if I want to ski I pay the
new higher prices without complaint, but not a new 30% load on my hill. My pass is $1500 in August, my parking pass is $999, which now is useless
(non guaranteed) between 10-1:30 because the lots are full 7 days a week.

My Ikon benefit at other resorts is nothing. I get not one benefit, thank god MCP gets me 50% off if I want to go to one of their resorts.

The fact that everyone I know in resort management and marketing is so tight lipped about every metric they used to share with me- RFID is so
great for analysis, points to the fact that this a point of serious contention, after being promised a less crowded experience in exchange for high pass and ticket
prices I feel a little betrayed.

So chunk brain, come on out and take run or two with me, and lets discuss at length during the 45 minutes it takes to get up the hill.

So, in summary, you confirm my point - IKON pass holders arbitrage their days against snow conditions just like season pass holders do. Then you call me a name and then you point to a 45 minute wait.

First, that wait is commonplace at both destination and local resorts during peak season. There have been longer waits from Breckenridge to Attitash to Whitetail. People like to ski when the conditions are good.

Second, your true beef is with the price of the season pass product. If the crowding is bad enough to lower the value of the pass product, then that needs to be renegotiated.

We've managed to get through a lengthy thread with a lot of good information and a spirit of respect for everyone's opinion. Thanks to all who've participated I've gained understanding about how others feel about how things may be changing. That was my primary motivation in starting the thread.

So..let's see if we can continue sharing without accusing or blaming. It's natural for something like this to reflect frustration but life is filled with that. We can choose to handle it maturely.

Both of you make valid points in my opinion. But both of you also name called. @Supergaper doesn't appear to be targeting vacationers, he targeted the IKON pass. If you disagree, defend the IKON pass. He offers information which if accurate seems interesting and useful. Saying otherwise seems inaccurate and needlessly inflames a tough issue. And @cantunamunch has provided useful facts and a thoughtful economic perspective and has been additive to the discussion. If anyone does go out of bounds, in whichever direction I'm confident this community can get things back on the respect track.

None of my local friends feel exclusion towards vacationers, entitlement as a local or anything of the sort. That doesn't mean they like long lift lines or crowds, there are increasing numbers of us locals too, particularly at SLC resorts, we're part of what's happening crowd-wise. We all like to ski, we live in a free country and should be free to pursue it as much as we choose. At the same time, we all have an experience in mind and if we feel what's happening is outside of that we should be free to discuss that in a civil way. I imagine there are vacationers who share some of the concerns locals have, that's also part of what I wanted to gauge. If there aren't then they and the market prevail and they should, again, in a free country.

So let's keep this from becoming locals vs. vacationers in any way, if some want to talk about that they should start a separate thread as it is a completely separate issue. Let's continue the inclusion and respect for one another we've shown admirably throughout this thread. Thanks!!!

 

[Started at 53]

We see this at many of the resort towns. Much of the "Keep Squaw True" push is done by some east coast transplants. It is the new norm.

I resemble that comment

 

[Supergaper]

Thanks Lorenzzo,

I was a bit taken aback by Cantunamunch's original comment (#3) which was pretty snarky and where I found the term "chunk brain".

Cantunamunch is correct that my, and just about every pass holder's beef is with JHMR, not the Ikon Pass. It's too good a deal to pass up, my friends
in California have them because its also the full pass at Squaw/Alpine and Mammoth.

This is why I mentioned the tight lipped response of my long time friends in who work for JHMR high enough up to have the metrics. How much does the resort
get per skier visit from Ikon, are dollars per skier up or down? What percentage of RFID scans on the tram are IKON passes?

Far from being bad skiers, Ikon pass holders are avid skiers who I think tend to drive to the resort, stay in inexpensive lodging, bring a quiver of fat skis and ride
the tram more than the average visitor. Its the way I would do it too.

Just trying to point out that this year's visitation is dramatically higher than anything I have seen in the past, and coupled with elevated prices is a little frustrating.

And to the local thing, I was clear to say pass holder and not local, though I have a mortgage, a business (non portable) and wife, so full time transplant is fine with
me.

Finally, pro tip for tram line- it is not OK to go ahead of a bunch of people to "get up with my friends".

 

[Started at 53]

Finally, pro tip for tram line- it is not OK to go ahead of a bunch of people to "get up with my friends".

Never

 

[Pequenita]

The economy is firing on all 8 cylinders, its busy everywhere cause people can afford to travel and ski.

This. Also, the newest generation to enter the workforce (and spend its own money) is a lot bigger than the one prior. It makes sense that more people are skiing --> there are more people.

 

[givethepigeye]

^ this and social media / FOMO and resorts marketing contributes .

 

[marjoram_sage]

If you watch any kind of skiing videos on youtube, you will end up seeing ads for Utah skiing, visit Utah and the likes. So nobody is trying to keep Utah a secret place to ski.

I think many from bay area would ski Utah whether or not it was covered by a pass. It's way too convenient. There are around 20 flights a day from SJC,OAK, SFO to SLC. with tickets < $200. Many people in SF don't own a car so the cost of rental car comes pretty close to the flight cost. Or there are some who own commuter cars that are not good for a trip to Tahoe so you have to rent one. And you don't have to deal with the traffic risk to Tahoe when you fly to Utah. So SLC is the new Tahoe for Bay Area folks.

 

[cantunamunch]

If you watch any kind of skiing videos on youtube, /QUOTE]

There's already a YouTube "Ikon killing me" standard search phrase

 

[marjoram_sage]

There's already a YouTube "Ikon killing me" standard search phrase

yes but that's because of this band: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKon