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LiquidFeet

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for level shoulders, for deleting leaning-in, for angulating, for directing pressure to the outside ski
1. pole-drag: hold poles vertical, and drag their tips on the surface of the snow for full turns, no pole planting

for keeping hands forward instead of swinging them, for level shoulders, for deleting leaning-in, for angulating, for directing pressure to the outside ski
2. horizontal poles balanced on top of wrists, don't grip them, keep poles parallel to slope and don't let them drop!

for skiing centered instead of aft, for self-diagnosis of whether you are directing pressure to the outside ski
3. lift inside foot with ski parallel to snow surface, or with tip down, during any part of or for the whole turn

for skiing into and out of counter instead of skiing square in short radius turns, for holding hands forward instead of swinging them fore-aft
4. picture frame

for staying low in transition, for flexing to release without standing tall
5. new inside leg flexing without new outside leg lengthening; focus on that alone (for staying low in transition)
6. halfway poles/pole drag - grip poles half way up from the bottom; drag them on the snow, holding them firmly vertical through whole turns; initiate turns while keeping their tips dragging on the snow; this keeps you low

for keeping feet up under you to direct pressure to outside ski, to maintain grip without pushing the outside ski out or dropping the hip
7. railroad tracks motored only by ankle-tipping; do this at the bottom of the run, if even for a short distance; keep top of inside boot cuff up under the hip above it, do not allow that inside foot to move laterally to the outside of the turn

for getting higher edge angles by working from the feet up instead of by leaning in
8. hold onto each railroad track turn to make longer, rounder turns in a wider corridor; only tip ankles and lower legs to a higher angle to accomplish this; work on keeping top of inside boot cuff up under you; do this at the bottom of the run where it's flatter, even if that's only for a short distance
 
Last edited:

Skisailor

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Steve. Just wanted to say that I love love love your last post! The whole concept of moving ourselves down the hill seems, IMHO, to be getting lost with all of the more recent focus on tipping first.

I'm worried that this post will seem like heresy in the current climate at PSIA, and tipping IS a very important skill to learn and refine! But what I see in my own Division is that tipping is always prescribed first and foremost now by our clinicians. For what seems like everything! It's the current secret sauce apparently. And that is resulting in an overemphasis on lateral movements without the proper context of downhill movements. I don't know if that is their intention, or if there is some miscommunication or misunderstanding or whisper down the lane effects coming down from D-team members to trainers . . . But something seems out of balance to me at the moment. And it's very evident in my ski school.

I so agree that the OP would benefit from thinking big picture, focusing on fore-aft balance, and moving downhill as a priority before refining the lateral tipping actions. So much of what posters are noticing in Alexz's skiing seems to result from that perceived need to actively get the skis on edge, IMO.

I know I've probably stepped in it now. But there you have it. ogsmile
 

Nancy Hummel

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Thanks, OK, this week I'l try video of
  1. hop turns
  2. pivot slips
  3. one ski skiing
  4. up and over
  5. stork turns; dragging poles;
  6. javelin turns; dragging poles;
  7. JF falling leaf
  8. railroad tracks (not sure it's possible on this slope).
What else could help - dolphin, power plow, outrigger, leapers, frame, switch, etc? What of these 8 numbered above are redundant?

Alex, that is quite a list. Just add some basic parallel turns with the pole drag.
 

Steve

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Steve. Just wanted to say that I love love love your last post! The whole concept of moving ourselves down the hill seems, IMHO, to be getting lost with all of the more recent focus on tipping first.

Thanks Skisailor. Whenever I'm not feeling right on my skis I think to push the stick. It's a non-technical way of triggering our entire body to utilize fore/aft balance to our benefit.

The more I focus on the outcome and either guide or allow my body to do what it needs to do to accomplish that outcome - the better.
 

razie

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Drag both poles all the time, until they have a visible effect - not just as a one-time drill.

Sometimes it's psychological and/or you just need some mental models. You need to RELAX to get separation - otherwise, separation will simply not happen. Exaggerate it - as your skiing becomes more dynamic, you'll need more effort, so how about consciously and effortfully counterbalance i.e. tip your shoulders/torso to the outside, i.e. firmly drag your outside pole on snow in every turn!

The effort you put into this should be proportional to how fast you want to improve. Over many seasons? Or over a few days? Or over a few runs?
 

razie

Sir Shiftsalot
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Drag both poles all the time, until they have a visible effect - not just as a one-time drill.

Sometimes it's psychological and/or you just need some mental models. You need to RELAX to get separation - otherwise, separation will simply not happen. Remember, JFB had this expression "RELAX into angles" or something like it. Exaggerate it - as your skiing becomes more dynamic, you'll need more effort, so how about consciously relax your core and effortfully counterbalance i.e. tip your shoulders/torso to the outside, i.e. firmly drag your outside pole on snow in every turn!

The effort you put into this should be proportional to how fast you want to improve. Over many seasons? Or over a few days? Or over a few runs?
 

Doby Man

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Yes, I also appreciate how @Steve articulates his points. A lot of great posts on this thread. More technically, that “stick” is the actually existing vector between our abstract center of mass and our more concrete base of support which, for this purpose, is best defined as the ski boot. Once you become keenly aware of the existence and position of these simple attributes, you no longer have an excuse to fall to the inside and/or ride in the backseat as a conscientiously challenged individual. Managing these two entities in relation to each other is the key to unlocking all the movements we require for lateral, vertical and rotary separation.

Alex also seems to be getting inside leg shortening from inside tip lead rather than inside ski engagement, where it could be more effortlessly generated. That is one issue I would have with using inside leg shortening as an input that doesn’t start with the ski. In this case of tip lead, allowing for inside leg shortening is a mechanism that is, argumentatively, propagating the disengagement and non-use of the inside ski which, in turn, negates the use of the ‘inside half” altogether. While inside pull back would offer some correction, that would be just another mid chain adjustment and adding yet another unnecessary kink in the chain of movement. Though, if a skier’s intention is to place 100% of the weight, load, pressure, GFR, etc. on the outside ski, then inside tip lead really doesn’t matter much more than its negative influence on fore/aft balance that can be compensated for elsewhere.

The biggest thing I see missing (other than not getting over the front of the ski nearly enough) is the fundamental movement of rotary based angulation of the upper and, separate of that, lower limb rotary as steering into counter. When we focus on what we want from the ski, the movements and timing come together in a systemic coalescence via the preordainment of the human kinetic chain that is our anatomy and, to some, the hidden key to “natural” skiing and development. When we focus on too many separate details and play motor pattern roulette, that doesn’t seem to happen very often. Good technique is primarily about operating the ski, not the body for which, unlike ski operation, there are a number of options and variables. There are specific outcomes that must happen with the ski that can be generated from a number of variations from the body which is key to allowing our individual anatomies to do what they need to on a uniquely individual basis. As an example, I wouldn’t worry about the arms until you can apply pressure to the skis appropriately first, an achievement that will probably wash away the concern about arms without the need for it to be addressed. When skiers really nail down the core fundamentals of athletic skiing, all the small things like arms, hands, pole plant, A frame, stance width, etc., seem to work themselves out in the process or, in the “wash” so to speak. Because skiing is a product that is continuously being reproduced, efficiency, simplicity and consistency become key factors. They also happen to be key factors to “natural” skiing and development.

Drills offer excellent opportunities for further identifying fundamental weaknesses but more so to provide a measurable ladder of development. Most drills have numerous levels of difficulty modifications that represent steps in that ladder as does progressively corrected form. In that light, I would recommend picking only three drills to work on over a period of time that may target your weaknesses, one of which, mentioned above, may be rotary based angulation so, slip drills could be one. Hop turns will challenge you to engage both skis with correct fore/aft appropriation for which the dolphin turn may be considered the most challenging. The other I would recommend for its wealth of universal benefits to just about any advanced intermediate through expert and, the most avoided drills on the planet, is one ski drills. So, as an example based on partial supposition, with these three drills, the lateral, fore/aft and rotary planes are covered along with balance and footwork control to make a well rounded mix. Whatever you do, you really want to choose just a few of the right drills so you can make a season long commitment to them (and their hierarchy of difficulty modifications), the type of which is really required for drills to make the real and palatable “before and after” difference we are seeking. Don’t become a drill hoar unless, of course, you want your L3 by which time you’re seeking to be pimped out anyway.
 
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alexz

alexz

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... 1. Feet are way ahead of CoM. View attachment 50949
....
2. How wide are those skis underfoot? Are they easy to tip up on edge with just ankle-tipping inside the boot?

1. May it be result of too small heal lift or ramp angle?
2. Rossi Experience 83 x 176. I think at exam I will use Rossi Experience 88x178. I am 5'9'', 160-165 lb.

Thanks.
 

LiquidFeet

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1. May it be result of too small heal lift or ramp angle? Pull/hold your feet back. Don't adjust equipment.
2. Rossi Experience 83 x 176. I think at exam I will use Rossi Experience 88x178. I am 5'9'', 160-165 lb. I'd suggest using the ski whose waist width enhances your ability to tip the skis onto edge with ankle tipping alone.

Thanks.
 

Monster

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Thanks Skisailor. Whenever I'm not feeling right on my skis I think to push the stick. It's a non-technical way of triggering our entire body to utilize fore/aft balance to our benefit.

The more I focus on the outcome and either guide or allow my body to do what it needs to do to accomplish that outcome - the better.

Alex - At the risk of wading into deep water here, I think this is good advice. How you do it or visualize it is up to you to find something that works. For some, it's about fear of falling, or fear of the fall line. It's not always a matter of what you do with what body parts. Something that works for me is making a decision to "commit my weight to the hill", or allowing myself to release to gravity and letting myself "fall down the hill". If I use a full body gesture to augment that, I sometimes think or feel of leading my weight from my sternum.

About the hands - yes, this could actually be your secret. Mostly through pects and shoulder girdle, you seem pretty invested in freezing your upper body. That's something you often see in skiers who are focusing intently on what the lower body is doing, and it seems to be taught in some places as part of keeping skis tracking on edge - personally, I think it's anathema. That gesture has the effect of holding your weight up off the skis, resisting gravity - the exact opposite of what you want most of the time. It often goes hand in hand with the resistance to surrendering yourself to gravity as above. Everything has to be free to move; the old mantra - "a technique is a perfectly still structure in which you are perfectly free to move". . . Everything has to be free. Though I'm not that big on the "move your second-from-the-outside toe like this at this point in the turn" kind of approach to technique, for this, active mechanical control works for me. So, I'd say, try making the decision to relax your chest, arms and shoulders, allow the arms and hands to come down and forward, and especially, use the outside hand with intent as the steering hand. Through the turn, bring it across your direction of travel to finish at the center line of the body about the level of the navel. This can help a lot to tune the entire system and as L/F put it . . ."for directing pressure to the outside ski".

Mostly I'm just pissed that you're there skiing and I'm not, :roflmao:
 

Fishbowl

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Thanks Skisailor. Whenever I'm not feeling right on my skis I think to push the stick. It's a non-technical way of triggering our entire body to utilize fore/aft balance to our benefit.

The more I focus on the outcome and either guide or allow my body to do what it needs to do to accomplish that outcome - the better.

Great advice.

A lot of skiers have trouble letting go of specific mechanical instructions and embracing concepts instead. We are also starting to touch on the subject of “allowing” our bodies to look after the details by outcome focused thoughts.

The book The Innner Game series of books describes this process in detail. It is a different way of learning, so be warned. If you are interested, the reading The Inner Game Os Skiing by Timothy Gallwey.

https://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Skiing-Timothy-Gallwey/dp/0330299557
 

Uke

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1. May it be result of too small heal lift or ramp angle?
2. Rossi Experience 83 x 176. I think at exam I will use Rossi Experience 88x178. I am 5'9'', 160-165 lb.

Thanks.

1. Yes, it may be the result of a fore/aft alignment issue. In bare feet can you squat all the way down and keep your feet flat on the ground or do you have to raise your heel and balance on the balls of your feet to keep from falling back?

uke
 

LiquidFeet

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Hey, alexz, lots of people are enjoying your thread; it gives them a chance to talk and think about skiing.
I'd like to read more from you. Where's your thinking at this point?
 

Average Joe

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My .02 is to explore all opportunities, in addition to technique:fore and aft alignment, lateral (cuff) alignment, canting.
If one has the time and means for a comprehensive revamping of their skiing, keep all options on the table.
And find a boot alignment tech who will watch the videos and/ or ski along, and be willing to make progressive changes to setup as part of the program. In a static (ski shop) setting, sometimes alignment is done “backwards”- often by top pros.......
 

Tom Holtmann

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Drills offer excellent opportunities for further identifying fundamental weaknesses but more so to provide a measurable ladder of development. Most drills have numerous levels of difficulty modifications that represent steps in that ladder as does progressively corrected form. In that light, I would recommend picking only three drills to work on over a period of time that may target your weaknesses, one of which, mentioned above, may be rotary based angulation so, slip drills could be one. Hop turns will challenge you to engage both skis with correct fore/aft appropriation for which the dolphin turn may be considered the most challenging. The other I would recommend for its wealth of universal benefits to just about any advanced intermediate through expert and, the most avoided drills on the planet, is one ski drills. So, as an example based on partial supposition, with these three drills, the lateral, fore/aft and rotary planes are covered along with balance and footwork control to make a well rounded mix. Whatever you do, you really want to choose just a few of the right drills so you can make a season long commitment to them (and their hierarchy of difficulty modifications), the type of which is really required for drills to make the real and palatable “before and after” difference we are seeking. Don’t become a drill hoar unless, of course, you want your L3 by which time you’re seeking to be pimped out anyway.

Doby Man - can you recommend any specific one ski drills or progressions. Also, are you talking about drills where you actually remove one of your skis or is lifting up a ski sufficient? Practicing on a regular basis without a ski is definitely a hindrance to practicing such a drill on a regular basis.

Thanks
 

ToddW

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Alex,

It’s still alignment (beds and lateral; f-a changes would be premature.) if you want to do something on snow, do Schlopy drills to try to overcome the inappropriate tension in your pelvis — double pole drags will reinforce the undesirable until you learn to selectively relax many of these muscles (alternate Schlopy and double drag once you achieve success with the former.) Since your boot setup is trying to force you out of balance, you may not achieve success.
 

Uke

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If your boot setup or the structural alignment of your body is out of whack all the drills and focus on technique will net little gain compared to what can be accomplished with the same effort on an optimized setup.

Fore/aft alignment is one of the first issues that should be addressed.

uke
 

LiquidFeet

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Alexz, do you have any thoughts about what your goals are and how you're progressing?
Did anything you did today produce new sensations or new thoughts?
Did the day's work seem pointless or inspiring in any way, either of those?
Or did something happen as you did drills that seemed worthwhile in terms of reaching a goal you have?
Did anything you did today offer a surprise, either positive or negative?
 

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