Can they really do this to instructors?

[Ken_R]

In reality, perhaps. In law, I doubt it. Does the employer assign a monetary value (and collect corresponding taxes on) those perks?
You are probably better off with the status quo than with whatever bookkeeping they would come up with if pushed.
In many states there is also a 4 hour minimum if you are required to appear.

A LOT of companies mostly "employ" people nowadays by "hiring" them as independent contractors. Specially at the lower levels.

I suspect most companies violate FLSA laws by doing so but good luck with that in court...

 

[rcc55125]

From a tax perspective the season pass may classify as unearned income. Tax accountants out there please comment.
Tips should be declared as income on your 1040. I'm sure more than a few people kind of ignore this.

 

[Coach13]

From a tax perspective the season pass may classify as unearned income. Tax accountants out there please comment.
Tips should be declared as income on your 1040. I'm sure more than a few people kind of ignore this.

If the season pass provided is the result of or part of compensation for participating in a business (which at many resorts, t is) then it’s earned income.

I agree with your take on tips, if they are in cash. It’s a little different ball game for tips added to a credit card payment.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

Instructors need passes to do their work. They can’t get on the lifts with their classes without a pass. Passes are not total perks.

Some of the other perks -pro form and other discounts are available to anyone who is a PSIA member and not dependent upon employment.

The resorts need part time people at the busy times. Full time people have priority over part time people when assigning work. Most of the time I show up at lineup, I end up working.

 

[graham418]

$10 and a hot dog and a Coke at the turn maybe...

Wow. you must have been caddying at a pretty posh place. I never got anywhere near that.

 

[crgildart]

Instructors need passes to do their work. They can’t get on the lifts with their classes without a pass. Passes are not total perks.

Free skiing when not working or otherwise on the clock could definitely be considered a perk. I'd rather keep that than get paid for lineup + 2 hours if not picked and not get to ski when not working.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

I think it's highly debatable then whether full or half day private lessons provide the best value in ski instruction.

Free skiing when not working or otherwise on the clock could definitely be considered a perk. I'd rather keep that than get paid for lineup + 2 hours if not picked and not get to ski when not working.

You need a pass to get on the lift to get to lineup. It would be logistically difficult to only be able to use your pass if you were working.
Many full time people rarely free ski.

I agree that passes are more perks for part time people who ski more than they work.

 

[Jilly]

Well, not in the province of Ontario. The labour law states if you are there when asked to be, you get 3 hours. So when I taught I got minimum wage even if I wasn't teaching. If I taught then I got my regular wage. So ladies night was 2 hours. I got my L2 CSIA wage for 2 hours and minimum for 1. Shifts were arranged so that the business didn't lose money on wages. If you weren't scheduled, you didn't show up unless called. Perks - yah we got a pass and jacket. Jacket had to be handed in at the end of shift. And a little bit of training from a L4.

At Tremblant you can't free ski if you haven't check in with ski school first. If you're not scheduled to teach, you're not skiing either. Many of the instructors have bought the local "Tonnik" pass so they can ski with friends. Uniforms must be left in the pro room after classes. No drunk instructors in uniform at après....

 

[crgildart]

I have to pay for internet access to work from home. I have tp pay for the gear to haul my work computer and peripherals to the office everyday because we don't have assigned desks. Lots of poeple who work downtown have to pay for parking out of their own pockets daily and then claim it on their taxes. I could see resorts offering extreme discount local passes and/or printing 4 hour flex lift tickets out for instructors picked from lineup. After that/before that you pay for your own free skiing. Anyone who complains about only getting free skiing when not picked for lineup, well, I can't say it here hahaha! Be careful what you ask for. Independent contractor status for instructors would really wreck all the fun for sure.

 

[martyg]

I simply will not work at a hill that rocks that policy. In my past experience, Mt Baker was the worst. It was just abusive.

For me, it is not about money. I probably have more money than time. For me it is about respect. I value my time. If a ski hill (i.e., employer) doesn't respect me, or my time, I have zero desire to cooperate with them and zero respect for them. At most hills, I find that instructors are largely treated like shit. I find that I am better off as a guest. My past private clients seek me out, we ski together (if I like them - if not I ignore their emails) and have a great time, but I never charge them. I also belong to a private cliub at our hill, and they value that access.

My analogy for being a ski instructor: It is like dating someone who treats you like shit, but the sex is phenomenal. However no matter how good the sex is, at some point you have to respect yourself and cut the cord.

Until instructors, as a collective group, grow a spine, we will continue to be treated like fast food workers.

Again, down with stem cell recovery. Super bored. Sorry for the rant.

 

[fatbob]

Until instructors, as a collective group, grow a spine, we will continue to be treated like fast food workers.

And seems unlikely it will happen in the US ever with a ready pool of hobbyists and retirees ready to do it for the perks and pocket money.

 

[crashpants]

This thread is sort of blowing my mind. It's not that I thought instructors were getting every penny of the lesson fees, but neither did I imagine they were basically being paid gas money and swag. Is this typical, or are these just horror stories from particularly bad ski schools?

I have to take exception with the idea that they should just find another job if that one doesn't suit them. I can play that game with every profession. And no one need explain the free market to me. I just feel rather strongly that people who have spent countless hours developing a skillset that helps me improve my life should be paid in something beyond pride and lift tickets.

Is there a ski instructors union?

 

[tch]

As father and father-in-law to two ski/snowboard instructors, I can only sympathize with most instructors and their work conditions. As I've written before, daughter's resort charges $900+ for full day private. Daughter gets less than 1/5 of this as "pay". New, "more generous" policy gives her minimal pay for showing up at line-up.

The only way she earns any real money is by getting generous tips from wealthy clients for whom overall cost is not an issue. Her biggest "instructor lessons" were 1) realizing she got hired by a large, destination resort with rich visitors, and 2) realizing she needed to develop a network of those kind of returning clients who she could count on for big tips.

 

[martyg]

And seems unlikely it will happen in the US ever with a ready pool of hobbyists and retirees ready to do it for the perks and pocket money.

Totally with you.

I was paid base rate for line-up at my last ski hill. But still.... that is two hours out of every day that I will never get back.

This fall I had great discussions with a ski school. I was interviewing for the adult private school. The hill is very guest experience driven, which I like - which is to say, very high end. A full day private with me would cost into four figures.

At the end of the process I received an email, "We are thrilled to welcome you to XXXXX's private adult school, and thrilled to offer you a base rate of $12.25 per hour." I replied back. I thanked them for their time. And said, "At $12.25 per hour, I couldn't respect myself."

In kayaking I am PSIA D-Team level. On rivers, and I mainly work with outfitters in very cool, very desireable destinations (Patagonia, Mongolia, Middle Fork of the Salmon, etc), I typically net $400 - $500 per day. The environment has many more objective hazards and consequences, but find that an acceptable rate of pay.

 

[martyg]

I have to pay for internet access to work from home. I have tp pay for the gear to haul my work computer and peripherals to the office everyday because we don't have assigned desks. Lots of poeple who work downtown have to pay for parking out of their own pockets daily and then claim it on their taxes. I could see resorts offering extreme discount local passes and/or printing 4 hour flex lift tickets out for instructors picked from lineup. After that/before that you pay for your own free skiing. Anyone who complains about only getting free skiing when not picked for lineup, well, I can't say it here hahaha! Be careful what you ask for. Independent contractor status for instructors would really wreck all the fun for sure.

I would totally welcome a model like in Europe. Most instructors have no idea how to promote themselves or build their brand. Half are total burn-outs who show up, draw their breathe, and draw their paycheck.

 

[crgildart]

There's also the 30 minute walk or shuttle from the parking lot to and from the base lodge/ski school every day. That's on top of an hour or more of driving for the more remote destination resorts.


Gotta really love either the job or the pay to endure that regularly.

 

[James]

You should do volunteer patrolling!
7am-5pm and lots of responsibilities. You can’t walk away and leave after a lineup mid day. Well, you can, but don’t come back, and your pass is done.

 

[martyg]

You should do volunteer patrolling!
7am-5pm and lots of responsibilities. You can’t walk away and leave after a lineup mid day. Well, you can, but don’t come back, and your pass is done.

As I have said in other posts, I would never, never, never volunteer at a ski hill. As an employee you have workman's comp, and OSHA on your side. As a volunteer, you have squat. Get hit by an out of control skier / rider, suffer a life altering injury, accumulate a seven figure medical bill, and you are on your own; living in a cardboard box at the side of the road.

I get that we all weigh return verses risk, but it is not worth the risk for me. The US Military provided me with a range of technical rescue skills that were executed in high risk situations. I have zero desire to risk my physical well-being and financial assets on a ski hill.

All that being said, thanks for your hard work and devotion. Best to you.

 

[Ken_R]

I simply will not work at a hill that rocks that policy. In my past experience, Mt Baker was the worst. It was just abusive.

For me, it is not about money. I probably have more money than time. For me it is about respect. I value my time. If a ski hill (i.e., employer) doesn't respect me, or my time, I have zero desire to cooperate with them and zero respect for them. At most hills, I find that instructors are largely treated like shit. I find that I am better off as a guest. My past private clients seek me out, we ski together (if I like them - if not I ignore their emails) and have a great time, but I never charge them. I also belong to a private cliub at our hill, and they value that access.

My analogy for being a ski instructor: It is like dating someone who treats you like shit, but the sex is phenomenal. However no matter how good the sex is, at some point you have to respect yourself and cut the cord.

Until instructors, as a collective group, grow a spine, we will continue to be treated like fast food workers.

Again, down with stem cell recovery. Super bored. Sorry for the rant.

Right on Marty.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I will be grateful to my first mountain as that's where I learned to ski and ultimately became an instructor. However, I was worked to the bone, had to show up for every lineup, all day long and often without taking a lunch. I'm grateful because I got some great training there and learned a lot. However, I was kept ridiculously busy plus thrown into the all day kids program a little too often. I never saw my SO let alone got to ski with him. The kicker was when this happened on a powder day and I was in there all day. That was almost the nail that broke the camels back as they say. The final straw was when I got yelled at for taking a lunch. At this point I felt the perks were not greater than my 'suffering'. I transitioned to Vermont as we started to spend more time there. My employment now is extremely civilized and nothing like my other mountain. I couldn't be happier.

What I think is wrong is how our volunteer patrol at Bromley gets less of a food discount than I do all while not getting paid at all. Their job is way more important than mine and they have more responsibility to boot. I don't get it.